My water is TOO GOOD!

If you have a question or comment specific to the VII that doesn't fit in any other VII category, submit it here.
Post Reply
Mr.Ken

My water is TOO GOOD!

Post by Mr.Ken »

While waiting for The v2Beast to arrive, I figured I could change those RO cartridges (let's see ... Clinton left office in what year was that?). Anyway the cartridges weren't getting any better sitting under the sink in a bag. So, in they went.

Now, living in Sothern California, we have what is considered hard water. How hard you ask? Well, the County of S.D. publishes water TDS numbers (measurements taken at the reservoirs) that are just under the Federal limit for potable water (500ppm). The water coming out of my tap is steady at 305ppm. My RO water consistently measured 30ppm. With the filter change, I am now at 18ppm. It has been suggested by some who should know that the ideal water for espresso is maybe 50ppm, and 80-90ppm for brewed coffee. The theory is of course that some solids help in extracting some of the coffee compounds. My water is too good for espresso!

Can I taste the difference between straight RO and an ideal mix? Well, frankly no. In my La Pavoni I have 'mixed' RO water with a little tap to bring up the TDS. I am not capable of discerning a taste difference. And apparently the s1v2 machine likes having the purest water possible.

So finally the plumbed-in people won out over the pour-in people, and here I am!

After my v2 arrives I'll be quiet.

Mr.Ken
San Diego
Martin

Post by Martin »

With my old Iso Tea pour over, I used Chris's double cartridge filter/softener and then added carbon-filter only to bring UP the L.A. water to about 5-6 grains from 0-1. Now that I'm direct plumbed, I'm stuck with the very soft 0-1g water, and I notice 2 results: First, the shots are a little flatter. A bit of hardness, IMO, makes a difference. Second, (I'm guessing here, and may be way off) I swear that the shots are foamier. No, I'm not confusing this with crema (which the V2 does seem to enhance). My flimsy analogy is with the sudsier effect that very soft water has with soap.

Don't mean to hijack this RO question. I have heard that a second filter is necessary to re-harden RO water. Was that the question?
Martin
Is there a 2nd Martin here? I'm the one with the cow.
Niko

Post by Niko »

Martin wrote: Is there a 2nd Martin here? I'm the one with the cow.
Yes there is, I'm getting my Martins confused here....thanks for clearing that up with the cow. I still like that avatar.
Mr.Ken

Post by Mr.Ken »

No question, really. Just an opine on water. I love your word 'sudsier'. I can imagine some water-mixing arrangement at some point, but the reality is that I first will have to learn about espresso with a pump machine and that will keep me occupied for some time.

All water talk has been about what gets into the machine. Nothing I have seen has addressed what happens to the water while it sits inside. In my La Pavoni, I was astonished to find the water pH increases 2 full points (more base, from 7.3 to 9.3) OVERNIGHT. That 'sitting' involved probably one heating/cooling cycle, then draining the unit the next morning to put in fresh RO water.

Do people routinely drain the boilers of the S1? How often? Anybody ever check what comes out?

Mr.Ken
Niko

Post by Niko »

Mr.Ken wrote: Do people routinely drain the boilers of the S1? How often? Anybody ever check what comes out?

Mr.Ken
My S1/VI gets so much use that there's no reason to ever drain it, my wife does a good job of that (using water for other uses besides coffee). I recently checked the water by simply sniffing, looking at it and then drinking it when it cools down. Located in the S.F. Bay Area where the quality of water is excellent, I'm not surprised but on the other hand, I just relocated this Vivaldi to the central valley area where the water is terrible. I can't say how hard the water is exactly but I can say that people have lost appliances to bad water out there. Now I'm curiuos about the water quality report out there.
My other S1 is a VII which doesn't see as much action, this one gets the boilers drained every week. What I mean by that is cycling the group several times and then tap out the steam boiler several times into a large steaming pitcher.
bbqnut

Post by bbqnut »

Well, if anyone thinks the insanely long water FAQ end-all be-all, read no further.

Anyhow, I am in San Diego, and my water measures about 100 ppm coming out of the tap, and about 15-20 ppm directly out of the RO system.

I have always been extremely happy with both the water taste (as pure water), and the coffee taste that uses the same RO water. I had never been to concerned about the lack of water hardness, but did consider the pH...

Under advice from some other enthusiasts, I checked my pH. It seemed to be quite acidic at about 6.2, so I got the calcite filter from Chris' coffee hoping to bring it up. Well not only did I NOT like the taste of the pure water going through the calcite, but it is now quite alkaline at about 8.4. I am back to running straight RO to the S1.

After having seen quite a few commercial machines and the ravages to the insides from even slightly hard water, I am willing to live with the possibility that my delicious espresso is less than perfect due to excessively soft or acidic water.
Post Reply

Return to “VII General Q&A”