WDT Cup?

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JmanEspresso
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WDT Cup?

Post by JmanEspresso » Sat Nov 28, 2009 4:15 am

Hello,

New to the S1 forums, but Ive been lurking for some time now. Im a new owner of an S1V2, and I will post about that shortly. . .

I was pulling shots tonight, getting familiar with the machine, and, knock on wood, but Ive been having really great luck. Started out with some Klatch Ethiopian Amaro Gayo, 8 days old, with an 18gr dose, running the temps between 93-94. Shots are pouring nicely.

Im a big fan of the WDT when your getting things Dialed-in. Once you get to know your equipment, its not always needed, but Ill probably use the WDT for a couple weeks until I get used to dosing into the smaller 53mm portafilter.

So, what are you guys using for a WDT Cup? My trusty old Yogurt Cup which I used with my Synesso Baskets is too darn big! I fashioned a little make-shift "collar", about 1in wide, out of some stiff printer paper, but I would like something a bit more stable, like the Yogurt cup.

Any ideas on things to use for the WDT cup? Or should I just take a basket to the grocery store and spend 20 minutes in the yogurt section?

Thanks guys, I appreciate it!

Jeff
--La Spaziale Vivaldi II w/Programmable Preinfusion -- Macap MXK -- Baratza Vario -- Bunn G2 -- Peter Dienes 550 Mokka -- Yama TCA-5 -- Yama SY5/SY8 -- Bodum Presses -- Clever Coffee Dripper -- Aeropress Coffee Brewer

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Dodger1
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Re: WDT Cup?

Post by Dodger1 » Sun Nov 29, 2009 9:30 am

When I used to use the WTD technique, I found that the Yoplait yogurt cups could be cut to provide a perfect fit for the Vivaldi 53mm baskets.

BTW, welcome :grin:
Vivaldi Mini II w/pi
Compak K10 WBC & Vario
RB & Bumper tampers, Motta 16oz.

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JmanEspresso
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Re: WDT Cup?

Post by JmanEspresso » Sun Nov 29, 2009 10:18 pm

Thanks for the Welcome!

I went to ShopRite Last night with my double basket, and stuck every yogurt cup into it they sold.

The Yoplait cups fit, but if you cut it too far, your out of luck. So, I grabbed three cups of yogurt.

On the way out, I walked by a display with a bunch of packages of plastic cups, all Store Brand. I stick the basket on one of cups, and whatdya know. Fits nicely, with more of the cup to be cut off to get the fit properly. . . Which equals less chance of screwing it up.

So.. a sleeve of 25 cups was $1.70
.... And 3 cups of yogurt was $3 before tax.

So I went with the cups, simply because I had 24 chances to screw up cutting it to the right size. Good thing too, because I had to do it three times to get it right.

But.. It fits perfectly. Clear cups, which is fun :) , And, Ive got plenty more to change out too when the current one gets all coffee stained.

Im all for using the WDT to get things dialed in, 100%. But, I liked not using it. SO, once I get a better handle on how the dispersion pattern effects the puck, Ill go back to dosing to a mound. Dosing to a mound, no taping, no leveling, just nutate the mound and a light tamp, was wonderfully easy on Anita. Soon, I will be saying the same thing about the VII. In the meantime, shots couldn't look/taste more perfect with the help of the WDT. Gotta love that technique.
--La Spaziale Vivaldi II w/Programmable Preinfusion -- Macap MXK -- Baratza Vario -- Bunn G2 -- Peter Dienes 550 Mokka -- Yama TCA-5 -- Yama SY5/SY8 -- Bodum Presses -- Clever Coffee Dripper -- Aeropress Coffee Brewer

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Dodger1
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Re: WDT Cup?

Post by Dodger1 » Mon Nov 30, 2009 8:38 am

JmanEspresso wrote:Dosing to a mound, no taping, no leveling, just nutate the mound and a light tamp
I've been using that technique for awhile now and it's vastly improved the quality of my shots. Only problem, which really isn't, is that I have to keep my dose right around 16g, with the double basket, or my pile of fluff ends up too high.

I did the mod to my bottomless pf, so it now accepts either the Dalla Corte, or the La San Marco triple baskets. With the triple basket I can get an ~ 19g fluffy pile but with most of the beans that I like, I've found that I actually prefer a 16g dose.
Vivaldi Mini II w/pi
Compak K10 WBC & Vario
RB & Bumper tampers, Motta 16oz.

DDA
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Re: WDT Cup?

Post by DDA » Wed Dec 02, 2009 7:13 pm

Hi.
Just like JmanEspresso I'm new in the S1 forums and have been lurking for a short while now.

I'm just curious when you guys say you use yoplait cups. Do you grind into the cups then transfer grinds to the pf or you use it like a funnel by cutting the bottom and maybe a bit at the top? if so, wont the grinds fall out when you remove the cup/funnel if you dont do tapping or settling?

Well, obviously I'm not just new in the forums but also new in the whole espresso world.

Thanks
Dave

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slo
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Re: WDT Cup?

Post by slo » Thu Dec 03, 2009 6:27 am

Hi Dave. Here is a link to the explaination of the Weiss distrubution technique that uses the cup funnel.

http://www.home-barista.com/weiss-distr ... nique.html
Vivaldi II, Multiple (a collection really) Lever machines
Currently on deck grinders: Mythos and MXKR
Backup grinders: Robur, Major.
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I have a serious problem ... Can you guess what?

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JmanEspresso
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Re: WDT Cup?

Post by JmanEspresso » Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:22 pm

Basically, no, the grinds wont fall out when you lift up the cup. you cut it so its like a funnel-ish thing. This allows you to stir the crap out of the grounds without them falling over the side.

Then, carefully lift off the cup... its much easier then it sounds.

Tamp and go. Some people level off the top of the coffee, but I, and other, just wiegh the proper dose, stir, lift, tamp.
--La Spaziale Vivaldi II w/Programmable Preinfusion -- Macap MXK -- Baratza Vario -- Bunn G2 -- Peter Dienes 550 Mokka -- Yama TCA-5 -- Yama SY5/SY8 -- Bodum Presses -- Clever Coffee Dripper -- Aeropress Coffee Brewer

SwingT
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Re: WDT Cup?

Post by SwingT » Tue Dec 08, 2009 1:52 pm

My shots got more consistent after one of the posters here told me to do a "nutating" tamp, and I quit using WDT.

Apparently, S1V2 likes a nutating tamp.

quicker, easier - more consisent.

good thread on it here.

Jim schulman has it about right.

Good thread on it here.
http://www.home-barista.com/tips/nutati ... t=nutating

Try to do it as you might imagine a spinning coin settling down, as it nears the end of it's spin before settling flat.

Once settled, press firmly, couple of spins and that's it.

I'm probably not using five to seven pounds of tamping pressure

Caveat - I am using a convex tamper, suggested by Chris Coffee

michael
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Re: WDT Cup?

Post by michael » Tue Dec 08, 2009 2:38 pm

when i first started, i used a few techniqes to remove clumps in the portafilter, but then i gave them up; i tried nutating, but found that wasnt necessary either. now, i rotate the portafilter under the doserless to distribute the coffee as it comes out, tamp and it works - generally good looking pucks i have a convex and a flat espro. i like the covex becauses it gives me a little more room for the nut on the screen. 8)

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JmanEspresso
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Re: WDT Cup?

Post by JmanEspresso » Wed Dec 09, 2009 12:09 am

Im a big fan of WDT, for getting things dialed in. It allows you to kinda "forget" about distribution when you're working out the dose the grind, the temp etc etc.

Im still new to the Vivaldi, so Im using the WDT for every shot. Once I get more familiar with the machine, Ill drop it. . . Just like I did with Anita.


For Tamping:

I like a Convex Tamper. If your a Reg Barber fan, I like the Euro Curve. I am currently using a CafeLat Royal Tamper, which is more of an American Curve. . . Still much better then a Flat tamper(for me), but I miss my EPNW Tamper.

Right now, Im using a modified Staub/Nutate tamp style. Its hard to explain, but put those two tamping techniques into one process, and you pretty much have what Im doing. That, along with the WDT, has been giving me spot on pours.

------

One thing that is painfully evident, is how friggen lazy I got with the E-61. Shot builds that would result in great shot on Anita, are Channeling like a mo-fo on my VII. And I dont mean a half-assed shot build, I mean things like, a less then perfectly level tamp, or slightly over-nutating in one section of the basket. On Anita, as long as your distribution was spot on, you could make those little mistakes when you tamped, and still have a GREAT shot. On the VII, not so much. Its very humbling.

Also.... I noticed that, if I dont change out the screens every 2-3days, I get channeling, donuts, and puck deterioration. I noticed it about 4 days after I got the VII. The first 2-3 days, I was pulling awesome shots, right off the bat. Then everything went to hell. No matter what I did, I couldnt pull a good shot. This went on for like 3 days. Then, since I had the machine a week, I changed the screens. The first shot after changing them, was an absolute textbook extraction.

So now, Im dropping screens every other day. Im sure it depends on how many shots you pull, and how often. . . So Im sure some people dont need to change screens any less then once a week. I haven't counted lately, but if I had to guess, I would say probably 10-15 doubles a day. Mostly shots, with a cappa or americano thrown in here and there. I switched the screens Saturday, and switched them again yesterday. They weren't filthy, but there was definitely gunk on the second screen/dispersion block, and some grounds between the 1st and 2nd screens. So, every other day it is. Its MUCH easier then the E-61 setup, and if it allows perfect water dispersion, IMO, its neccesary. Of course, YMMV.


So:
14-16gr dose
WDT
Modifed Staub/Nutation Tamp
Switch screens/clean block every other day
..and maybe 4-5seconds PI

Has been giving me spot on extractions. Mix that with 100% guaranteed temperature consistency, and you have got the makings of phenomenal espresso. . . Not to mention one very happy camper(me!)

A bit off topic, my bad.
--La Spaziale Vivaldi II w/Programmable Preinfusion -- Macap MXK -- Baratza Vario -- Bunn G2 -- Peter Dienes 550 Mokka -- Yama TCA-5 -- Yama SY5/SY8 -- Bodum Presses -- Clever Coffee Dripper -- Aeropress Coffee Brewer

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JohnB
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Re: WDT Cup?

Post by JohnB » Wed Dec 09, 2009 10:19 am

Have you tried not doing the WDT to see if you still have the same issues with less then perfect distribution? Just grind, dose, tamp.
Speedster/Bosco Sorrento/ K10WBC/K30/Bunnzilla
KvdW/Pullman/RB Tampers
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JmanEspresso
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Re: WDT Cup?

Post by JmanEspresso » Sun Dec 13, 2009 8:13 pm

Not yet, but only because i removed the Schnozz from my grinder(it was pretty beat up and crappy), and i didnt put another one on yet. I probably will in a day or two. Once that goes back on, Im going to attempt dosing straight into the PF. I did it on my Anita with no problem.

I think Im buying a Vario for my Dad for Christmas, and Im going to use it as well. He loves coffee in all forms, but he only does the work for brewing. Hes learning on the VII, but slowly. SO he'll use the Vario for Vac and FP. but I want to get myself a new grinder dedicated espresso grinder as well. Im thinking it will be one of the Macap conicals... probably the MXK.. I think its the best value for the money. But maybe a doserless K10, or a Nino. I like some of the new, nicer designed doserless grinders, I think they would make it very nice for dosing right into the PF.
--La Spaziale Vivaldi II w/Programmable Preinfusion -- Macap MXK -- Baratza Vario -- Bunn G2 -- Peter Dienes 550 Mokka -- Yama TCA-5 -- Yama SY5/SY8 -- Bodum Presses -- Clever Coffee Dripper -- Aeropress Coffee Brewer

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Re: WDT Cup?

Post by JohnB » Sun Dec 13, 2009 8:56 pm

I'm going for a B Vario to replace my "spare" Major that does mostly vac pot duty & my KA Pro that is only used for press. As I mentioned on CG I will be waiting for the updated version which should be here by Feb. Exchanging emails with one vendor I was told that there are "rumors" of other improvements on top of what is already known. If I'm going to drop $400 & hang onto it for years whats another couple months??

I'm also thinking about a conical with the K10 WBC & NIno at the top of my list but after the shot(Gimme's Leftist) I got from the Speedster last night I think I can "suffer" with the Major for awhile longer. :twisted:
Speedster/Bosco Sorrento/ K10WBC/K30/Bunnzilla
KvdW/Pullman/RB Tampers
Hario NCA 3 & 5s/Wooden Neck Dripper/Buono
Zassenhaus Knee Mill
Modded Hottop B

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JmanEspresso
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Re: WDT Cup?

Post by JmanEspresso » Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:36 pm

Heh heh.. Yeah Im sure the shot was only decent. :)

The Major is a great grinder IMO, but I think many will agree with me. Have you been reading the topics on HB about single-dose grinding? Seems that the shots would benefit from loading up an amount of beans. Im interested in trying it, but with how fast the major is, Im not going to try it until I can get a photo timer. But, even though I cant compare my shots to shots pulled with beans in the grinder. . . I dont notice inconsistencies at all... at least not with extraction rate and dose size.
--La Spaziale Vivaldi II w/Programmable Preinfusion -- Macap MXK -- Baratza Vario -- Bunn G2 -- Peter Dienes 550 Mokka -- Yama TCA-5 -- Yama SY5/SY8 -- Bodum Presses -- Clever Coffee Dripper -- Aeropress Coffee Brewer

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