channeling

For generic information on making espresso alt.coffee, coffee geek, Sweet Maria's web site and many others excel at this tutorial level of information. However, if you've been there and done that but have specific questions and concerns about getting the best espresso on the S1/VII/Mini-VII/Dream/Dream T, post those topics here.
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ddunn

channeling

Post by ddunn » Mon Sep 06, 2004 10:09 pm

Over the past couple of weeks I have had a problem with channeling. I have not purchased the optional portafilter pressure gauge. I am wondering if my pump pressure has increased. I will order the gauge tomorrow. Any other ideas? I have not changed coffee, grind, tamping or anything else that I can think of.

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Post by chas » Tue Sep 07, 2004 7:07 am

Have you tried the alternate screen config below as shown on the S1 site. It cured channeling for me,

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ddunn

channeling

Post by ddunn » Wed Sep 08, 2004 8:51 pm

Thanks for the reply. No, I had not tried the alternate screen configuration. Actually I had not paid enough attention to that issue, because I purchased one of the newer units shipped after Feb. 20th and was thinking (or not thinking!) that either the newer units dealt with this issue or Chris would have included instructions changing the screen configuration. This modified screen configuration does help greatly with channeling.

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Channeling

Post by wgaggl » Fri Sep 10, 2004 5:05 pm

I was bugging Chris about the same question!

Please specify WHICH diffuser disk helped against the channeling! I'm having the newer thinner one, if the thicker one (with the star shaped pattern) helps, then I'll buy one.

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Channeling

Post by wgaggl » Fri Sep 10, 2004 5:11 pm

I was bugging Chris about the same question!

Please specify WHICH diffuser disk helped against the channeling! I'm having the newer thinner one, if the thicker one (with the star shaped pattern) helps, then I'll buy one.

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Post by chas » Wed Oct 06, 2004 7:57 am

I don't think the diffuser disk makes any difference in channeling by itself. The thinner disk was introduced to address the user complaint that the entire diffuser disk/ shower screen assembly stuck down into the portafilter so far that many couldn't get in as much coffee as they'd like.

Of course if you like to use less coffee then the thicker one may be better since the less empty space after expanson between the top of the coffee and the shower screen the better to avoid soggy pucks.
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Post by chas » Sat Jan 15, 2005 1:41 pm

I haven't followed the advice Chris passed along from LaSpaziale on using that long handled brush to clean the group head. I did, however, borrow the idea of rotating the shower screens each time so I can get back in business while the dirty set soaks in Cafiza.

From this thread you have probably also noted that I do not use the factory config of the two screens - rather I flip the small one over and place it inside the large one. This seems to get the intended benefits of the two screens while reducing channeling and allowing the use of a little more coffee.

Recently when doing a clean and swapping the shower screen sets, I noticed that one of the large screens has taken a warp so that its surface is now convex rather than flat. When tightened into the group, the outer rim no longer mates with the brass diffuser. If used like this, each time the 3-way operates, it pulls some grounds right until into the group - not a good thing.

I'm pretty sure I know why this happened. In the factory configuration with the small screen on the bottom, the small screen has an indentation around the bolt hole so that when both screens are placed together, there is no gap between the two screens around the bolt hole. This is not true in my alternate configuration and tightening the larger screen on the bottom against the smaller screen pushes the middle of the larger screen in. This eventually makes the larger screen take a set and remain convex even when the bolt is removed.

I ordered a new set of screens from Chris so I still have two good sets to rotate and now I place a small washer between the two screens in my alternate configuration. (I think I used a #10 flat washer.) Such a washer is the perfect size to fill that gap between the screens in the alternate configuration so that the large one doesn't warp when the bolt is tightened.

The only thing I still need to keep an eye on is whether the washer I used is rust proof. I may be replacing them often until I can find a stainless steel washer.
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Post by wgaggl » Sat Jan 15, 2005 3:36 pm

One thing I noticed is, that if I get channeling it's mostly either in the middle around the screw or on the rim of the basket.
The channelling in the middle occurs mostly when using too much coffee and the screw leaves a strong impression in the dry puck.
I could fix that by using a screw that has a flat thin head (for a slotted screwdriver) rather than the factory screw, that sticks out a lot.
The channeling on the side I found occured when the two shower screens where not tightly above each other (tapping with tamping isn't the problem anymore, I completely stopped doing that) and water escaped at their side, going around the screens instead of through them (kinda what Chas reported at the outer rim).
The coffee I use compresses more than others I have previously used resulting in a soggy puck, the thicker brass diffuser disk could help with that. I agree with Chas that it doesn't necessarily impact channelling that much, it's more about avoiding that soggy puck.

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Re: channeling

Post by Johan Lindroos » Sat Jan 15, 2005 5:34 pm

DDun, I definetely think that it

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Shower Screen Configuration

Post by NewEnglandCliff » Mon Jan 31, 2005 11:32 pm

I've looked closely at all the possible screen configurations and can't see how anything could be better than the factory setup.

It seems that having a little space between the brass diffuser and each of the screens, as in the factory setup, would help prevent channeling. This would allow the pressure of the water to disperse some after exiting the diffuser and before entering the first sreen, and then to disperse more before entering the second screen. This creates the most even distribution of water across the top of the coffee and through it, no?

If the small screen is placed topmost and upside down then that screen would be pressing flat against the diffuser. Some diffuser holes would be at least partially blocked, while others would be directly over some of the screen holes and create jet squirts through those, increasing the likelihood of channeling. Since the edge of this screen turns down in this position, water would escape disproportionately around the edge, as well. With the larger screen then placed facing up over this you'll see a gap around the entire perimeter between the diffuser and this screen. The water that escapes from around the downturned edges of the small screen would then flow upward through this gap and be forced along the edge of the basket, promoting channeling there. Coffee grounds will surely get trapped in that gap, as well.

If you place the small screen on top but with the edges facing upward, then this screen will end up flush against the larger screen when placed over it. This will create the same kind of pressure points and resulting jet flows and weak flows as described above. Since the larger screen is forced further away from the diffuser in this configuration, you'll end up with a gap around the perimeter between the large sreen and the diffuser, escaping water, and perhaps more channeling around the basket edge. This will probably attract grounds, as well.

In either of these arrangements, the orientation of the center indentation of the small screen will require the addition of a stainless washer at some point between the screens, depending on that orientation. Otherwise you'll create warpage upon tightening the screens in with the screw. Plus, without the washer, you'll get more water squirting from around the edge because of this warpage, as Chas has documented.

Any other cofigurations obviously provide no benefit.

The stock configuration not only eliminates all of these issues and allows for better water flow, but it also causes the larger washer to seal around the edge of the diffuser, leaving no grinds catching/water leaking gap. The smaller screen also seals against the larger when installed over it.

I've read that placing the small screen on top, edges facing up, with the larger screen placed over it allows more space for coffee in the basket, but I've looked pretty closely and I really can't see that much, if any difference. Not enough to justify the resulting issues, IMO.

One thing I have noticed that may make some difference in water dispertion is the way that the screens are placed rotationally against each other. If you hold them up to a light, placed together as they would be when installed, and then rotate one of them, you'll notice a kaleidoscope effect. Some positions show groups of holes llined up in a way that would probably cause a disproportionately stronger flow of water in that area, while at the same time other large spaces show no light coming through at all. Other rotational alignments show a much more even distribution of light throughout the entire screen. I think the best position would be where the light holes were evenly distributed but with as few showing as possible. It's not too difficult to install the sreens without disturbing the alignment too much, especially if you put a touch of honey around the top edge of the small screen rim before aligning them. That'll wash off during the warming flush.

If I didn't see other people spending as much time with this kind of espresso minutia I'd think I needed help. Thanks for making me feel better.

NEC

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Post by BobG » Tue Feb 01, 2005 12:40 am

Thanks for sharing your very thorough analysis -- it is certainly more analysis than what I have done.

I have been using the alternate configuration for about 4 months after trying both configurations during the first 2 months after buying the S1. I don't put a washer in between, but do not overtighten the screw.

The only point I would add to your note is that I have found less grinds in between the screens when using the alternate configuration. I didn't notice much of a difference with respect to channeling in either config.

However, I will try switching back to the factory config. and looking at the light pattern as you mention above.

Thanks,
Bob

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Post by NewEnglandCliff » Tue Feb 01, 2005 9:46 am

Yes, I suspect the alternate screen setup would allow fewer grinds getting up in there. With the two sreen surfaces in direct contact with each other many of the holes will be blocked.

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Post by NewEnglandCliff » Thu Feb 03, 2005 6:38 pm

Another note on the spacing between surfaces, it's beneficial to have a slight space between the bottom shower screen and the espresso grinds. Maybe that's obvious to many, but it wasn't to me for awhile. That space allows the most even distribution, the best uniformity of the water pressure possible through the grinds.

While at Zoka Coffee Roasters in Seattle a few years ago, I got into a discussion with one of the baristas about wether a flat bottomed tamper was better than a curved one. He was a curved bottom tamper man. But then I said something like "but after tamping, when you insert the portafilter into the group head, don't the upturned edges of the coffee tamped with a curved base tamper mash into the shower screen harder than the rest of the coffee, and what are the consequences of that?". He scratched his head and said he'd have to bring that up at the upcoming SCAA.

Both he and I had read of a post on Coffeegeek or somewhere, by David Schomer, a former flat bottom man, of why the scientific evidence supported a curved base. This was explained to him in some detail by a Japanese (or was it Chinese?) tourist, who happened to be an engineer in some related field. It made him a believer and a convert.

Well I just had to send off an email to Mr. Schomer at Vivace, his coffee bar, posing the same question I did to the Zoka barista. His response was "the espresso grinds should not be coming into contact with the shower head".

Duh. I don't know why that light bulb hadn't gone off in my head beforehand. Guess I just thought I should be cramming as much coffee in there as possible.

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Post by Johan Lindroos » Fri Feb 04, 2005 5:31 am

I think that the answer that it should be some space above the coffe dose is not automatically a simple answer.

Different espresso machine manufacturers are doing things very differently as regarding to pre-infusion and such stuff. Therefore I feel that for some machines it could maybe be so that a small space is good.


But in the other hand, with a very well diffused water stream which gets into contact with the coffe without an air space can also be benefitial because the coffe is tightly fitted to the screen and therefore makes channeling harder to occur. The possible disadvantage is that when turning and getting coffe in contact with the shower screen, different force of the turning can cause som extra tamping, so the result also not only depends on tamping and grinding, but also how hard you turn the filter handle. With macines which seals to the filter rim with a horisontal rubber surface, it is not very good to overfill with coffe, the seal can also be not as tight as necessary. Some macines have a vertical seal, and therefore are tight anyway. Then the handle angle can vary to alarge degree and anyway be tight. The best seems to be to turn the handle just necessay, not overly tight.

Anyway, that

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Post by NewEnglandCliff » Fri Feb 04, 2005 11:31 am

I think it's that very contact between the shower screen and the coffee that CREATES channeling, in some respect, as well as less than optimum extraction.

When the water squirts directly out of a sceen hole into the grounds, the pressure will be higher at that pinpoint than if it were allowed to disperse laterally somewhat if a gap were there. This can be exacerbated if there is a disproportionately higher pressure out any particular hole. This is entirely possible, at least for the S1, as there are only 10 holes in the brass diffuser where water squirts out. The screen holes directly beneath those holes will get more of the water pressure (see my first post above which discusses alleviating this).

Wether the pressure out of any particular hole is higher or not, a stream, when exiting a screen in direct contact with the grinds, has a better chance of finding a fissure, or weak spot, in the grinds and would be driven directly through it. If there were a gap bteween the screen and grinds, and if the gap was filled with water, as it would be shortly after beginning the water flow, then each stream would naturally disperse before entering the coffee.

As for coffee extraction, when the sreen is in contact with the grinds, there are areas of coffee that would be in direct contact with only steel. These are the spaces between the holes, and there are quite a few of them. The grinds immediately below these spaces don't get any water pressure at all. They would simply get wet, but wouldn't have the force of any water above them to extract out their goodness. If there were a gap between the screen and the grinds then this coffee would be subject to pressure and be properly extracted.

The benefits of tamping have been discussed thoroughly on other forums. One of them is the polishing the top of the grinds receive when performing the quarter turn. This has the effect of diminishing any imperfections of uniformity, fissures, or weak areas at the surface, thereby reducing the odds of channeling. If that surface, once the portafilter is installed, comes into contact with the shower screen with a twisting motion, this polished surface will be destroyed. The benefit of the tamping polish will be nullified.

barjohn

Post by barjohn » Sun Feb 06, 2005 12:48 am

I am getting ready to try a new expeirimental setup. I have taken the older original star holed dispersion head, the original screen configuration and then added the small screen from the pod shower head with the nice flat phillips head screw. The result is an extremely smooth shower screen with no protrusions since the small screen from the pod unit is properly indented to make the screw head flush. The unnown factor will be the added difficulty for water to penetrate the center portion since the center area now has three screens. I will try it this way and then I will try the newer shower head and post the results I get from the two combinations.

Anyone else want to try this and post the reuslts they get?

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Post by chas » Sun Feb 06, 2005 11:25 am

Can you break out your digital camera and post a couple of shots of this arrangement?

If I understand correctly that one would need both the original S1 diffuser AND the pod adapter with the smaller screen to attempt duplication of your experiment, you'll be lucky to find someone else. It lets me out. I've never seen the need for the pod adapter.
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Post by NewEnglandCliff » Sun Feb 06, 2005 12:40 pm

I can't help you there, either, barjohn.

Hey Johan, I thought you Swedish baristas were curved bottom tamper folk. My favorite tamper is made in Sweden by a company called Impod (www.impod.se). I bought one directly from the producers there a couple years ago, the Interragativo model, for an E61 machine I have. Absolutely gorgeous! I wish they would make one for the S1, but they're only making 58mm tampers, and only convex bottom ones.

You're method necessitates the use of a flat bottom tamper.
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Post by barjohn » Mon Feb 07, 2005 12:46 am

In my first experiment this AM I found several things:
1. Almost no channeling effect visible until the very end of the poor where it turned whitish
2. I need to reduce the amount of grounds to the fill ring and no more
3. Really made for thick goopy pour
4. Puck looked very good and smooth on top

I was going to include a picture for you but my camera battery was dead. I have it charging and will try and take one later and post it.

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Post by dan_kehn » Thu Feb 10, 2005 11:08 pm

NewEnglandCliff wrote:I think it's that very contact between the shower screen and the coffee that CREATES channeling, in some respect, as well as less than optimum extraction.
Indeed, I use the "nickel test" to confirm there's around 2mm of clearance. I met John Sanders (Hines Public Market) at the SERBC. We got to chatting about this very topic, and he pointed out a common error related to channeling and grind settings. Intuition tempts a barista to move down the grind setting when they see channeling, thinking that more resistance will slow an onrush. Well, another answer may well be to make the grind coarser and confirm the clearance is allowing the puck to expand UP to meet the grouphead, not gashing the smoothed puck surface on lock-in. Careful attention to this detail improved my consistency and I've even (*gasp*) put aside the 0.1 gram accuracy scale.

Below is an extreme close up of the result... my apologies, it was not an S1.

Image

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Post by NewEnglandCliff » Fri Feb 11, 2005 9:01 am

Sure is pretty. Hope my girlfriend doesn't mind when I replace our vacation photo with this as my desktop!
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Post by Johan Lindroos » Sat Feb 12, 2005 9:18 am

NewEnglandCliff wrote:I can't help you there, either, barjohn.

Hey Johan, I thought you Swedish baristas were curved bottom tamper folk. My favorite tamper is made in Sweden by a company called Impod (www.impod.se). I bought one directly from the producers there a couple years ago, the Interragativo model, for an E61 machine I have. Absolutely gorgeous! I wish they would make one for the S1, but they're only making 58mm tampers, and only convex bottom ones.

You're method necessitates the use of a flat bottom tamper.
and
NewEnglandCliff wrote:I think it's that very contact between the shower screen and the coffee that CREATES channeling, in some respect, as well as less than optimum extraction.

When the water squirts directly out of a sceen hole into the grounds, the pressure will be higher at that pinpoint than if it were allowed to disperse laterally somewhat if a gap were there. This can be exacerbated if there is a disproportionately higher pressure out any particular hole. This is entirely possible, at least for the S1, as there are only 10 holes in the brass diffuser where water squirts out. The screen holes directly beneath those holes will get more of the water pressure (see my first post above which discusses alleviating this).

Wether the pressure out of any particular hole is higher or not, a stream, when exiting a screen in direct contact with the grinds, has a better chance of finding a fissure, or weak spot, in the grinds and would be driven directly through it. If there were a gap bteween the screen and grinds, and if the gap was filled with water, as it would be shortly after beginning the water flow, then each stream would naturally disperse before entering the coffee.

As for coffee extraction, when the sreen is in contact with the grinds, there are areas of coffee that would be in direct contact with only steel. These are the spaces between the holes, and there are quite a few of them. The grinds immediately below these spaces don't get any water pressure at all. They would simply get wet, but wouldn't have the force of any water above them to extract out their goodness. If there were a gap between the screen and the grinds then this coffee would be subject to pressure and be properly extracted.

The benefits of tamping have been discussed thoroughly on other forums. One of them is the polishing the top of the grinds receive when performing the quarter turn. This has the effect of diminishing any imperfections of uniformity, fissures, or weak areas at the surface, thereby reducing the odds of channeling. If that surface, once the portafilter is installed, comes into contact with the shower screen with a twisting motion, this polished surface will be destroyed. The benefit of the tamping polish will be nullified.
Hi New England Cliff!

Yes, I

barjohn

Post by barjohn » Sat Feb 12, 2005 1:46 pm

The following Posts are images starting with my kitchen setup. Notice that I talked my wife into letting me have the kitchen painted an Italian red! Try accomplishing that my friends.

Image

Image

Image
Last edited by barjohn on Sun Feb 13, 2005 12:15 pm, edited 5 times in total.

barjohn

Post by barjohn » Sat Feb 12, 2005 1:47 pm

The Screen Setup:
Image

barjohn

Post by barjohn » Sat Feb 12, 2005 1:48 pm

Another shot of screen setup:

Image

barjohn

Post by barjohn » Sat Feb 12, 2005 1:50 pm

I have swtiched to the new brass diffuser to test it and see if it makes a difference. I have also found that I could go coarser on the grind than with the standard setup.

barjohn

Post by barjohn » Sun Feb 13, 2005 11:46 am

First attemtp with the newer brass diffuser and the results were not as good. Will hold off judgement until I do a few more. In particular, the first shot was watery but the second was better.

I appologize for the size of the pcitures. I will try and reduce and repost them to my web site and see if that helps. Chas, if you can make this forum work like CG's for posting images that would help.

Newly resized images seem to work. I did a 50% reduction on camera images for those trying to do the same.

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Post by admin » Sun Feb 13, 2005 3:56 pm

John:

You sure you don't need to call Chris and order a set of red side panels? :twisted:

That a nice looking cheat sheet you have mounted over the S1's control panel!

I don't see any way in the freebie forum software to auto scale down graphics to a maximun size. If so I'd probably limit to about 800x600. I can see your current 1024x768 pix just fine but I'm using 1600x1280 res. Probably not too common.
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Post by barjohn » Sun Feb 13, 2005 4:48 pm

Yes, red panels would be nice. I too am using 1600x1278 so that is why it looked ok to me. I can change it down to 800x600.

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Post by wgaggl » Sun Feb 13, 2005 7:48 pm

Barjohn, is the center screw the original one from the pod kit, or did you use a different one?

barjohn

Post by barjohn » Mon Feb 14, 2005 12:00 am

That is the original one from the POD kit and the screen.

barjohn

Post by barjohn » Mon Feb 14, 2005 10:46 am

I thought I would share the results of the second attempt with the new brass diffuser and same triple screen setup. I increased grind finess 2 notches. I still got some channeling at the end. In looking at the pucks I notice that the channeling never occurs in the triple screen area but only after the end of the triple screen. I don't know if this is significant but given our other poster's comment about the Techno not channeling and having very fine screens it made me wonder. I will continue to experiment and try to only change one variable at a time so that I can tell if the result is due to that change or something else. By the way I use the Espro tamper so that I know I am getting consistent tamp pressure. The newere diffuser takes more grounds and must be filled slightly above the fill ring.

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Post by Johan Lindroos » Mon Feb 14, 2005 11:31 am

I can try to take som photos of the Reneka diffuser screens so that you all can see what they look like. One thing I miss is web space for upload of pictures. Maybe I have some friends who maybe can help with that.

barjohn

Post by barjohn » Mon Feb 14, 2005 11:35 am

Email me your photos and I will post for you.

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Post by Johan Lindroos » Mon Feb 14, 2005 11:47 am

Very good! I

barjohn

Post by barjohn » Tue Feb 15, 2005 10:17 am

Another day experimenting with the newer diffuser. It seems to require the grind to be much finer to reduce channeling. It also require more grinds. Flavor seems a bit thinner to me. I will switch back to the loder diffuser and try again and see what results I get.

barjohn

Post by barjohn » Thu Feb 17, 2005 1:25 am

I have switched back to the old diffuser. I like that it takes less grounds and the grind does not have to be as fine. As I was putting it in with the triple screen set up I noticed that the hole pattern is spried out into a pattern that does not form a circle. The newer brass diffuser's holes form a perfect circle. That circel is just at the edge of the three screen configuration (where the top most screen ends) and this might explain why there is a tendency to channel in that area rather than the center area. With the staggered hole pattern of the old diffuser there is no ring of concentrated water pressure and perhaps that is why I am seeng far less pitting or holes with the old diffuser. It may be different without the third screen. Any thoughts by anyone?

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Post by Johan Lindroos » Thu Feb 17, 2005 10:07 am

John, you have an e-mail with some pictures now!

barjohn

Post by barjohn » Thu Feb 17, 2005 11:51 am

I will post this evening when I get home from work.

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Post by chas » Mon Feb 21, 2005 9:25 am

If you look back at the front photo of John's S1 in a previous post you will see the magnetic cheat sheet I sent him close to a year ago. Of course one adorns my S1 in the same location.

This weekend I had to perform one of the functions I hadn't done in a while and found some of the wording on the "cheat sheet" could be improved. I just printed a new sheet. Since I have to burn a whole sheet to do this and get 10 on a sheet, I have several spares.

If anyone wants one, use the Private Message feature of this forum to send me your request and snail mail address. I'll send you one, no charge just for being a member of "the club".
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Post by barjohn » Mon Feb 21, 2005 10:31 am

The pictures are posted for your use.

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Post by Johan Lindroos » Mon Feb 21, 2005 10:54 am

[quote="Johan Lindroos"]

...
It has actually luckily turned out that the convex shape of the tamper is almost the exact copy of slightly rounded shape of the diffuser screen of the Reneka Techno. My observations are that channeling almost never occures. The shapes match to each other. So if there is a diffuse water flow which gets into contact with the coffe (wihich can

barjohn

Post by barjohn » Mon Mar 14, 2005 11:39 am

I have been using the triple screen set up as I described in earlier posts. It significantly reduces channeling. Before I would see the occasional holes in the top of the puck where the surface broke down. Now I never see these holes. If channeling occurs it would have to be around the edges. The top of the puck is laways smooth with a light imprint of the screen. I do not fill past the ring mark on the basket. For $32 for the pod kit it is worth the experiment. I suggest you all give it a try and see if you don't agree.

I ordered Chris' new crotchless porta filter so I can also visually observe if what I see in the puck is reflected in the brew. It certainly appears that way to me but I could always be wrong.

BrianO

Alternate easy mod for the bolt.

Post by BrianO » Sun Oct 30, 2005 1:06 am

I just made a pretty easy mod to reduce the ammount of puck damage caused by the projecting bolt. Just grind the bolt head down. It's at least twice as thick as it needs to be. I don't know how much effect it has on channeling, but I feel better knowing my pucks are un-scarred :-)
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hlsheppard
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Post by hlsheppard » Sat Nov 12, 2005 6:16 am

After reading this thread - I had been having a few channelling problems with the "alternate screen configuration."

I switched back to the original setup and I've noticed that channelling has decreased quite a bit.

The slight decrease in coffee quantity doesn't bother me (much :? ). I'm thinking I'll leave it as it came from Chris'.
Howard L. Sheppard
howardsheppard(at)sbcglobal.net

"I wish I were less awkward around strangers. I never know what to say when someone asks me who I am and what in the world I'm doing in their house." -- Andy Ihnatko

javajay

Post by javajay » Mon Mar 27, 2006 9:52 pm

I am new to the S1 and this thread has been particularly helpful. The only major issue I've had is channeling. I also bought a verna bottomless pf with my S1 (from Chris Coffee). The bottomless came with a different dbl basket than the other dbl basket. Actually, I'm not sure which one came with the bottomless since they got mixed up. I didn't realize they were different initially. Well, it seems that I have a lot of channeling issues with one basket and not the other. Strange. I bought a 53mm Reg tamper also. The basket that works well does not allow the tamper in as deep as the basket that channels a lot. No other variables and the difference is really noticeable. My first impression is that the best shots from my S1 measure 1 1/2 ounces and are extracted over 25 seconds. The shots go blonde if I try to get a full 2 ounces. Very happy overall....
Jay

barjohn

Post by barjohn » Mon Mar 27, 2006 10:43 pm

Two factors affect channeling the most. The first and foremost is the fill level (I don't mean get out the scale). I find, especially with the triple baskets that filling to the ring and not more is key. Fill too much and the pour is slow and a wispy stream is what you get. Too little and it ours too fast and whites out quickly. Get the fill right and it pours perfect 1.5oz in 25-30 seconds. The second factor is the grind. It must be in the right range. Too fine and you get the slow pour and too coarse you get the channeling and a fast pour. There is a third important factor I left out. The beans must be fresh. Nothing you do can fix the stale bean situation.

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Post by italyhound » Fri Jan 05, 2007 7:44 pm

Woodchuck tipped me off to this thread and I was curious since this has been an inactive thread for almost a year what configuration of screens people have been using - the default or the alternative - and did it/not affect channeling?

Evan

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chas
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Post by chas » Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:16 pm

Before lino threw up his hands and stopped making them for us, many of us that had been playing with the alternate screen configuration, purchased his triple baskets. Since there was no need for the alt config to allow more coffee with the triple baskets, most of us switched back to the std screen configuration.
Chas
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Niko

Post by Niko » Sat Jan 06, 2007 2:13 am

So nobody is using the triples anymore?
Not that I need one, if anything I need a 1/2 of a single basket with my coffee intake.
I ordered a double basket from EPNW last month and it is the strangest Spaziale basket I've seen to date, luckily I have a tamper in my collection that fits it so it's a keeper. It's so odd looking and it fits more grounds, I'm not saying it's a triple but it definitely fills out the bottom of the naked PF.

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Post by chas » Sat Jan 06, 2007 10:46 am

No, I think everyone that got triple baskets is using them exclusively. lino is just not making any more. He had to create a fairly time consuming and expensive jig and every time he got a new batch of baskets they were a slightly different size. So the third time he got a different sized basket, he quit.
Chas
LM GS/3 & LaSpaziale Dream v 1.23 (US 120V)
Mazzer Kony E, Customized Rocky
Hottop P/B

Niko

Post by Niko » Sat Jan 06, 2007 12:53 pm

We should all have a "Basket Convention".
Gather up everybody's double baskets and the measuring tools, match them up in groups and send everyone home with baskets the same size.
I can see it now, the sign at my local county fairgrounds..."THE 2007 La SPAZIALE MISMATCH CONVENTION..."
Or like the Home Barista Tamper Road Show, we call this one the Spaztic Basket Roadshow...

Niko

Post by Niko » Tue Nov 13, 2007 9:49 pm

Espresso_Man wrote:Reading through this post made me wonder, if I have assembled my screens together the right (?) way.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUM9kKvn_Eo

bluesman13

Post by bluesman13 » Tue Nov 13, 2007 11:26 pm

Niko wrote:
Espresso_Man wrote:Reading through this post made me wonder, if I have assembled my screens together the right (?) way.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUM9kKvn_Eo
I think the smaller one goes on the outside with the indentation facing out

Niko

Post by Niko » Tue Nov 13, 2007 11:47 pm

That's the way they ship from the factory.
You can put them together any way you like but that's the factory specs, both of my machines showed up that way.
Not sure how well it would work the way you describe it, I've never tried it and I know there was an alternate screen configuration when used with the thicker dispersion disk - never tried that either...

bluesman13

Post by bluesman13 » Wed Nov 14, 2007 9:02 am

Niko wrote:Not sure how well it would work the way you describe it, I've never tried it and I know there was an alternate screen configuration when used with the thicker dispersion disk - never tried that either...
Niko,

was that comment to me or to the OP? I didn't think about how the two screens line up with each other. Does it matter? How do you have yours attached?

Steve

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