malabar gold

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michael

malabar gold

Post by michael » Thu Apr 10, 2008 3:09 pm

does anyone have any experience with these beans; i was hoping for a temperature recommendation and if i am lucky enough, a grinding recommendation for the mini mazzer e 8)

Niko

Post by Niko » Thu Apr 10, 2008 8:34 pm

I've never used Malabar Gold but something tells me to grind it into fine powder or dust since it probably has Monsooned coffee in it. As for temp you should be safe to start at the 93C range.

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Post by hlsheppard » Thu Apr 10, 2008 8:45 pm

I have lots of experience with these beans and Niko is correct. I grind them at the same setting as SM's Liquid Amber. Quite a bit finer than a "standard" bean/blend.

Very powerful espresso! The crema is pretty phenomenal as well (obviously due the the Robusta that Dr. John sources).

Tell us what you think.
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Re: malabar gold

Post by alsterling » Sun Jun 08, 2008 9:45 am

Michael, what happened with your Malabar? I've used it regularly for over two years. I first bought it from Dr. John roasted, then starting buying it green from coffeewholesalers.com in Eugene, OR.

As was mentioned, and by now I'm guessing you've confirmed it for yourself, it requires a finer grind than most other blends or SO's, and you should set the machine at 93 C minimum. Dr. John recommends 205 F to 207 F, which I once tried, but just couldn't see a substantial taste advantage on my machine as compared to 93 C.

Al

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Re: malabar gold

Post by zoey » Sun Jun 08, 2008 1:15 pm

I used to roast a monsooned malabar. As a single entity, I hated the stuff. To me, it had a real "muddy-soil-dirt" taste to it. The only way I could stand it was to mix it, in small portions, with other beans.

Sorry, it's been a while so I can't remember my temps/times/weights....
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Re: malabar gold

Post by Niko » Sun Jun 08, 2008 1:19 pm

It's "Muddy-Soil-Dirt" with peanuts!
...get it right. :lol:
I have to agree with you on that one. The beans are really good for blending and the crema is a thing of beauty to behold.
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MACAP Autotamper, 3 Thor tampers, Espro convex & CoffeeLabs tamper.
Scace Device, Alessi steam pitchers, Motta Steam pitcher, etc..

La Spaz S1 S5 Steam Arm w/ progressive preinfusion, Compak K3 Touch Doserless, Espro flat tamp
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Re: malabar gold

Post by hlsheppard » Sun Jun 08, 2008 2:13 pm

zoey wrote:I used to roast a monsooned malabar. As a single entity, I hated the stuff. To me, it had a real "muddy-soil-dirt" taste to it. The only way I could stand it was to mix it, in small portions, with other beans.

Sorry, it's been a while so I can't remember my temps/times/weights....
LOL - I think Tom (@ Sweet Maria's) characterized it very well when he said "musty old graveyard."

:confused1:
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Re: malabar gold

Post by zoey » Sun Jun 08, 2008 2:49 pm

"musty old graveyard."
With peanuts! :lol:
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Re: malabar gold

Post by Niko » Sun Jun 08, 2008 2:52 pm

Yes, don't forget the peanuts!
La Spaz VII (with timer) S5 Steam Arm & Passive Pre-Infusion, Mazzer Mini E Type B, MACAP MC4 Doserless,
MACAP Autotamper, 3 Thor tampers, Espro convex & CoffeeLabs tamper.
Scace Device, Alessi steam pitchers, Motta Steam pitcher, etc..

La Spaz S1 S5 Steam Arm w/ progressive preinfusion, Compak K3 Touch Doserless, Espro flat tamp
Hottop P, Behmor, iRoast2 and Gene Cafe

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Re: malabar gold

Post by Richard » Sun Jun 08, 2008 6:37 pm

zoey wrote:To me, it had a real "muddy-soil-dirt" taste to it.
Tended by elephants; watered by elephants. :shock: Disgusting stuff.
Richard J. Wyble

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Re: malabar gold...don't leave home without it

Post by alsterling » Sun Jun 08, 2008 8:57 pm

Richard wrote:
zoey wrote:To me, it had a real "muddy-soil-dirt" taste to it.
Tended by elephants; watered by elephants. :shock: Disgusting stuff.
I was just fine until you guys started in again.......raggin' on my Malabar.....

darn......there goes that darn gag reflex again......... :puke:

In defense of the blend, the retailers that I've met who use the original MBG, have very good success. Most noteable, it does hold up well to milk drinks. But I will admit that many of my "coffeephile friends" don't consider it for their straight espresso. It is, as you guys said, "Tended by ele............." oh heck, forget it, I'm gettin' queesy again! darn! (......maybe I'm allergic to the peanuts??!)
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Re: malabar gold

Post by michael » Mon Jun 09, 2008 8:19 am

i think i lost interest in the malabar; i never seem to get it ground fine enough--where do you set the collar on the mazzer mini e and for some reason, my crema fades so quickly i think i must be doing something wrong

it could be that some of those comments on the taste are correct

any suggestions 8)

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Re: malabar gold

Post by alsterling » Mon Jun 09, 2008 10:22 am

Michael........are you buying the MBG roasted, and from whom, or are you buying green and roasting yourself? That alone makes a difference. Specifically, when I started, I'd buy 5 lbs. to 10 lbs. at a time direct from Josuma. I would put the overage in the "refridgerator section", not freezer. During one period, I had a hell of a time with the shots. All acted as though they were ground too course and were just runny; my double extractions would complete in less than 20 seconds. I blamed everything but the coffee. That was my mistake. I didn't use the coffee quickly enough and it went bad. Dr. John has a "freezer recommendation", which essentially tells you to go from roast to freezer as quickly as possible. Take the beans out and leave at room temp for at least 12 hours before use. "Stale beans" can also be the culprit. So putting that out of the way, here's my whole regimen now.

Roast: Hottop Digital. I set the "count-down timer" for 21 minutes and hit start. Let it countdown to 18 minutes and dump in 250 grams. First crack usually at 3 minutes, (that's 15 minutes of elapsed time), it trails off, lull for approx. 1 minute, second crack starts around 1 minute 40 seconds, I dump after about 10 to 20 seconds into rolling second crack. Beans look med-dk brown. (Don't over roast too far into 2nd crack) You want just a hint-glisten of oil on a few beans out of roast. (this will increase after aging and at room temp)

Note: With my current business travel schedule, I do about 2x 250 gram roasts per 1-2 weeks. I've pulled containers from the fridge that were roast-date marked 3 weeks old, and the coffee brewed great and was delicious.

Rest period: I put the beans into a screw top plastic quart container and put into my fridge, not freezer. Beans need at least 5 days. When ready to use, I take the container out, place on espresso counter. Beans are even better as they age. I sometimes get best results with 2 wks from roast.

Grinding: (Sorry, I have a Macap M4 doser) While you may want a grind point on the Mazzer, regardless of the grinder, know that MBG usually requires a setting on any grinder that is about 5-10% (approx.) finer than any other blend. On my MDF, all other espresso blends work at 4-5, but Malabar takes a setting of 3. On the Macap, the collar goes from 0 to 10. Looking at the ring, "M"=Malabar, "O"=Others FINER 7....."M".........."O".....8 COURSE

PF loading: I use a level to slight less than level shot glass of beans, abut 17 to 18 grams of beans, and load in a double basket, with slight loss during tamping.

Machine: Temp 95C shot time 26-30 seconds or until blonding is more than barber pole Yield, about 1.5 oz

I hope that helps? I should probably do some videos...... Al
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Re: malabar gold

Post by JohnB » Mon Jun 09, 2008 11:50 am

alsterling wrote: Rest period: I put the beans into a screw top plastic quart container and put into my fridge, not freezer. Beans need at least 5 days. When ready to use, I take the container out, place on espresso counter. Beans are even better as they age. I sometimes get best results with 2 wks from roast.
Are you talking specifically about the Malabar or all beans? Typically by 3 days after roast most of the off gassing is done & the flavor is dropping off by 10-14 days. Of course there are exceptions but this has been my experience.
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Re: malabar gold

Post by alsterling » Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:13 pm

JohnB wrote:
alsterling wrote: Rest period: I put the beans into a screw top plastic quart container and put into my fridge, not freezer. Beans need at least 5 days. When ready to use, I take the container out, place on espresso counter. Beans are even better as they age. I sometimes get best results with 2 wks from roast.
Are you talking specifically about the Malabar or all beans? Typically by 3 days after roast most of the off gassing is done & the flavor is dropping off by 10-14 days. Of course there are exceptions but this has been my experience.
John, thanks for asking for clarification. Just this AM, and between clearing my desk, I think I edited this post about 10 times, catching something or another each time.

I am speaking only of Malabar Gold. I spoke to Dr. John recently, and he also found, through clients, that some retailers were finding an even better resulting extraction as long as 2-3 weeks after roast. I keep my beans in the fridge, well sealed but not vacuum pak'd. Whatever outgassing occurs, evidently makes it through the screwtop on the container just fine.

And about the taste, joking aside, I actually did informal taste testing (retail intentions) with this and three other blends. MBG was the most recognized and requested. Most of the "clients" were life-long coffee drinkers, either from Europe or South America, and had either lived or traveled to Italy. 10% always ask for straight shots, the rest get my 6 ounce cap's, made with a local dairy organic whole milk (2parts), and same dairy's Half-n-Half (1 part). I use a glass "ice-tea" dispensor with bottom valve, left in the fridge. Milk lasts longer and is always colder than if taken from the dairy containers direct. (Just a suggestion) I don't recommend they use sugar, but some like half a pump of Torani Irish Cream and French Vanilla in the milk, prior to frothing. (Weaning even coffee knowledgable people away from typical US specialty coffee, in my opinion, has to be done gently and with respect.)

Best, Al

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Re: malabar gold

Post by JohnB » Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:52 pm

alsterling wrote: I use a glass "ice-tea" dispensor with bottom valve, left in the fridge. Milk lasts longer and is always colder than if taken from the dairy containers direct. (Just a suggestion) I don't recommend they use sugar, but some like half a pump of Torani Irish Cream and French Vanilla in the milk, prior to frothing. (Weaning even coffee knowledgable people away from typical US specialty coffee, in my opinion, has to be done gently and with respect.)
Best, Al
I'll have to try storing my Half & Half in glass as I have had problems with it turning before I could use it up. I only use it in Iced Coffee or the occasional "not so great" cup of coffee. I hear you on the weaning thing. I keep a number of Monin sysrups on hand for my guest's/wife's lattes but use them mostly in my Italian sodas. I wouldn't call my friends "coffee knowledgeable" but I'm working on them. They can add whatever they chose to the Espresso or Americanos I serve but ONLY after tasting them black. Most find straight Espresso too strong but a growing number will now drink an American black & like it. Personally if I had to add anything but water to an Espresso I'd consider it a bad shot.

A couple months ago I was drinking Cappos regularly but once I sampled my first Americano I lost my taste for milk drinks. I will still make a decaf Latte in the evening once or twice a week but thats about it.
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Re: malabar gold

Post by alsterling » Mon Jun 09, 2008 2:18 pm

John, after our morning Brasilian cafezinho, I'm good for 1-3 cap's a day.....and believe it or not, I'm somewhat sensitive to coffee! Depending on time of day and whether I've eating, and what I've eaten, I get hyped up with palpatations, or sometimes I get a bit itchy! Talk about ironic! But if I'm eating, I'm OK. That's probably why I recommend a nice slice of NY lemon cheesecake whenever drinking American coffee!

As for milk storage, I used to throw out the market brand milk all the time. I really think it has to do with both organic vs regular AND the lower temperature storage when the milk is in the thick glass.

Al
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Re: malabar gold

Post by JohnB » Mon Jun 09, 2008 2:41 pm

alsterling wrote:John, after our morning Brasilian cafezinho, I'm good for 1-3 cap's a day.....and believe it or not, I'm somewhat sensitive to coffee! Depending on time of day and whether I've eating, and what I've eaten, I get hyped up with palpatations, or sometimes I get a bit itchy! Talk about ironic! But if I'm eating, I'm OK. That's probably why I recommend a nice slice of NY lemon cheesecake whenever drinking American coffee!

As for milk storage, I used to throw out the market brand milk all the time. I really think it has to do with both organic vs regular AND the lower temperature storage when the milk is in the thick glass.

Al
I only buy Organic Whole Milk but haven't found any organic Half & Half yet around here. I like your cheesecake idea but if I did that I'd weigh 300 lbs in a couple months! I guess I could just skip regular meals & live on the cheesecake & coffee. As my friends already know I will completely skip the regular meal when eating out if there are some really appealing desserts on the menu. Why ruin your appetite before you get to the good stuff!
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Re: malabar gold

Post by alsterling » Mon Jun 09, 2008 3:28 pm

I'm afraid that if you and I were neighbors, and considering our proclivity for desserts.........we'd have plenty of time to share thoughts on food and drink.......from our beds in the cardiac unit!

(how do you find time to email during the day like this?)

Al
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Re: malabar gold

Post by michael » Mon Jun 09, 2008 5:19 pm

i purchased roasted beans from josuma. funny, the first time i purchased the beans i had mega crema and great looking shots. this last batch of beans, i get instantly evaporating crema and my doubles last maybe 15+ seconds. i keep my beans in the freezer in zip lock bags and have been grinding more than 10% finer than my other beans. i have been using around 15gs for a double which is consistent with other beans. i find when i start getting upward of 17gs, i start getting a little too much in the holder. can you get good pours with 17gs in the holder ground this fine.

maybe i just have a bad batch of beans, but not so sure i would try these again 8)

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Re: malabar gold

Post by alsterling » Mon Jun 09, 2008 5:30 pm

michael wrote:i purchased roasted beans from josuma. funny, the first time i purchased the beans i had mega crema and great looking shots. this last batch of beans, i get instantly evaporating crema and my doubles last maybe 15+ seconds. i keep my beans in the freezer in zip lock bags and have been grinding more than 10% finer than my other beans. i have been using around 15gs for a double which is consistent with other beans. i find when i start getting upward of 17gs, i start getting a little too much in the holder. can you get good pours with 17gs in the holder ground this fine.

maybe i just have a bad batch of beans, but not so sure i would try these again 8)
Michael, so help me, about 3 months into my love affair with MBG, I hit that same brick wall. It was, again, my fault, as the beans were no longer fresh. I went nuts, blaming the grinder, brewer, etc. And you know what, I think I was freezing them at the time. You really need a "control group" situation. If you had fresh beans, you could try a shot with them. I just pulled another container of beans into service with a roast date of 5-24, and I have two more with a roast date of 5-31.

Towards the end of my containers, and after they continue to oil up, sometimes the shots do get runny, no matter what. If you want, I could send you a baggy of beans from my last roast and you could try them? No big deal, I'll send them out with my business mail. If you want, send me your address via email. (alsterling@earthlink.net) Your choice. When did you buy the beans? Dr. John usually ships on Tuesdays, right after his roasting on Monday.

I forgot and edited this in........I don't lose much in the PF when loading my 17-18 grams of coffee. I use a mixing stick to level and pak. I tamp without stress using a RB flat faced stainless.
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