Mazzer SJ Single Basket Spout Mod

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Mazzer SJ Single Basket Spout Mod

Post by Endo » Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:40 am

John, I notice you have both the SJ doser and doserless. I've been thinking of converting to the funnel to reduce the mess. Do you get a lot of clumping using the funnel?

It's a pricey mod (about $200), and I don't believe it to be the best solution etiher. I think the best would be the doser (to remove clumps) but with a small spout underneath. I've made a couple from stock folder paper, but I'm not happy with the look or the static. I also remember seeing a spout made from a milk jug. Have you tried this?

The best solution (I believe) would be a little metal spout that bolted to the same bolts left over when the doser-tamp is removed. Have you ever seen any plans for this? If not, I might design something myself. I'm thinking of modding my unused single basket as the spout. Just a little Dremel work to cut off part of the rim, fold up a tab for bolting, and then remove the bottom holes. A "basket-to-basket" mazzer spout. :lol:

I'll post picture once it's done.
Last edited by Endo on Thu Jan 29, 2009 1:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Mazzer SJ Single Basket Spout Mod

Post by JohnB » Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:17 am

Endo wrote:John, I notice you have both the SJ doser and doserless. I've been thinking of converting to the funnel to reduce the mess. Do you get a lot of clumping using the funnel?

It's a pricey mod (about $200), and I don't believe it to be the best solution etiher. I think the best would be the doser but with a small spout underneath. I've made a couple from stock folder paper, but I'm not happy with the look or the static. I also remember seeing a spout made from a milk jug. Have you tried this?

The best solution will be a little aftermarket metal spout that bolted to the same bolts left over when the doser-tamp is removed. Have you ever seen any plans for this? If not, I might design something myself. I'm thinking of modding my unused single basket as the spout. Just a little Dremel work to cut off part of the rim, fold up a tab for bolting, and then remove the bottom holes. A "basket-to-basket" mazzer spout. :lol:

I'll post picture once it's done.
The doserless mod has static issues that I don't get with the doser. That wire grid helps but it makes cleaning out "fresh grounds" from your spout a pita so I don't use it. The funnel kit can be bought from Phaelon Coffee for $165 complete + $5 sh in the U.S.

You can buy the spout mod from Espresso Parts but like most of their stuff its grossly over priced. I'm sure Owen @ Phaelon could supply it for much less. The spout will pretty much guarantee massive clumping as there is nothing to break it up. The fall into the funnel seems to break up the clumps but a stir may still be required. I'll try a few back to back comparisons using the same bean today & give you a better idea of which works better. I can say that the funnel mod is a huge static cluster f--k when you grind for press pot. I went back to my KA Pro as I got tired of cleaning up the mess. Hopefully the finer grind for vac pot will fair better.

As to the milk jug spout I told you before that's what I use on my doser & it works great. No static/no mess. The funnel modded SJ is much messier then the doser. (see pic)

SJ w/doser spout & shrunken head:
doser.JPG
doser.JPG (91.52 KiB) Viewed 9034 times

SJ w/messy funnel mod:
funnel.JPG
funnel.JPG (90.69 KiB) Viewed 9042 times
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Re: Mazzer SJ Single Basket Spout Mod

Post by Endo » Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:30 am

Ok thanks. You saved me $200.

I'll keep working on my "snout". I'm trying to come up with a design that will give me a "perfect" little mound of "unclumpy" grounds in the center of the PF. The "holy grail" would be to come up with something that would eliminate distribution and allow you to go straight to the tamp (like I saw at the 2009 Barista Championships).
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Re: Mazzer SJ Single Basket Spout Mod

Post by JohnB » Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:05 am

Endo wrote:Ok thanks. You saved me $200.

I'll keep working on my "snout". I'm trying to come up with a design that will give me a "perfect" little mound of "unclumpy" grounds in the center of the PF. The "holy grail" would be to come up with something that would eliminate distribution and allow you to go straight to the tamp (like I saw at the 2009 Barista Championships).
I can do that with the dosered SJ. A tap or two on the counter to settle & then tamp. I just did a back to back comparison using 16g doses & the funnel SJ definitely clumps. Not horrific but with the same tap & tamp there was noticeable channeling & the shot was not as sweet. Keep in mind I did remove the grid which may reduce clumping but it wastes a lot of coffee. You've got the best set up with the doser, just add a snout to direct the grounds coming out of the doser & you will be set.
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Re: Mazzer SJ Single Basket Spout Mod

Post by michael » Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:13 pm

what can you do to get less clumping on the mini mazzer e aside from using some sort of yogurt cup thing; why is there no clumping and only super fluffy grounds on the robur and major e grinders i see at some of the better coffee shops 8)

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Re: Mazzer SJ Single Basket Spout Mod

Post by RapidCoffee » Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:24 pm

Endo wrote:I'll keep working on my "snout". I'm trying to come up with a design that will give me a "perfect" little mound of "unclumpy" grounds in the center of the PF. The "holy grail" would be to come up with something that would eliminate distribution and allow you to go straight to the tamp (like I saw at the 2009 Barista Championships).
Why? If we're using religious metaphors, I would say that a godshot is the holy grail. Your kitchen is not a busy coffee shop, with customers impatiently waiting in line to be served. Take a few extra seconds, and prepare the puck properly. That will typically involve some sort of distribution (even if it's just a slight shake of the PF) and/or a grooming/levelling step.

Andy Schecter's Shnozzola is a great mod for Mazzer dosers. Here is a link to a plastic "schnozz".

It's incorrect to state that Roburs etc. do not clump. Clumping occurs due to grinds compression in the horizontal exit chute from the burr chamber. Dosers do not eliminate clumping, they just help break up clumps. The WDT is an alternative declumping technique for doserless grinders. Vertically mounted burrs or a different exit chute design would solve the problem.
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Re: Mazzer SJ Single Basket Spout Mod

Post by michael » Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:54 pm

at the coffee shop, the coffee that comes out of the robur and major doserless models is much less clumped that the coffee from my mini mazzer e doserless; what can be done to the mini e to get the fluffy grounds i see at the coffee shop 8)

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Re: Mazzer SJ Single Basket Spout Mod

Post by JohnB » Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:42 pm

michael wrote:at the coffee shop, the coffee that comes out of the robur and major doserless models is much less clumped that the coffee from my mini mazzer e doserless; what can be done to the mini e to get the fluffy grounds i see at the coffee shop 8)
Buy a Robur. :lol:
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Re: Mazzer SJ Single Basket Spout Mod

Post by RapidCoffee » Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:54 pm

Yeah well, that's what I eventually did. ;-) But I will gently suggest you (Michael) give the WDT a try with the doserless Mini-E. Some folks have found this declumping technique helpful.
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Re: Mazzer SJ Single Basket Spout Mod

Post by Endo » Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:57 pm

RapidCoffee wrote:
Andy Schecter's Shnozzola is a great mod for Mazzer dosers. Here is a link to a plastic "schnozz".
I tried the AndyS paper "schnozz" mod, and I didn't like it. I have been looking for the plastic "schnozz" link. Thanks. I'll give it a try before I go for a metal version.

What are people using for the material? Plastic I assume. I think I remember someone cutting up a plastic milk jug. My milk comes in bags. I'm sure I can find a good plastic milk jug substitute. Still, any other ideas for a material source?
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Re: Mazzer SJ Single Basket Spout Mod

Post by JohnB » Wed Jan 28, 2009 5:15 pm

Endo wrote:
RapidCoffee wrote: I tried the AndyS paper "schnozz" mod, and I didn't like it. I have been looking for the plastic "schnozz" link. Thanks. I'll give it a try before I go for a metal version.

What are people using for the material? Plastic I assume. I think I remember someone cutting up a plastic milk jug. My milk comes in bags. I'm sure I can find a good plastic milk jug substitute. Still, any other ideas for a material source?
There is no plastic schnozz link you just print out the paper one, cut one out & lay it over your piece of plastic & cut. Proceed as with the paper one. I secured the upper edge with Gorilla Brand duct tape so grounds wouldn't get between the the doser & schnozz. I cut up a one gallon spring water jug. Does that come in a bag up there also?
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Re: Mazzer SJ Single Basket Spout Mod

Post by RapidCoffee » Wed Jan 28, 2009 6:02 pm

JohnB wrote:There is no plastic schnozz link you just print out the paper one, cut one out & lay it over your piece of plastic & cut.
AndyS's schnozz instructions suggest stiff paper, whereas the Rober dosing mod link specifically says plastic.

BTW, you have me quoted incorrectly. I think the Schnozz is terrific. :grin: Endo is the guy who doesn't like it.
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Re: Mazzer SJ Single Basket Spout Mod

Post by JohnB » Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:08 pm

RapidCoffee wrote: AndyS's schnozz instructions suggest stiff paper, whereas the Rober dosing mod link specifically says plastic.

BTW, you have me quoted incorrectly. I think the Schnozz is terrific. :grin: Endo is the guy who doesn't like it.
Sorry, I thought I was pulling that out of his post. As I said I just used the paper link & cut it out of plastic after deciding the paper didn't "cut it". That plastic mod template looks much more complicated then is required for the SJ. Is the Robur opening different?
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Re: Mazzer SJ Single Basket Spout Mod

Post by Endo » Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:18 pm

RapidCoffee wrote:
BTW, you have me quoted incorrectly. I think the Schnozz is terrific. :grin: Endo is the guy who doesn't like it.
Now I'm being misquoted. I said I didn't like the "paper Schozz". I'm going to try the plastic. The paper one I tried from AndyS didn't fit very well, fell out, leaked grounds and collect static. I believe the more compllcated template, made from plastic will work better. We'll see.

Really, Mazzer should be selling a snout mod. It's surprising how they miss out on good opportunities to improve their product or make money on small upgrades. Not too smart. Old school.
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Re: Mazzer SJ Single Basket Spout Mod

Post by RapidCoffee » Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:13 pm

Agreed. There is no excuse for the lack of a better delivery mechanism on the doser, one that reduces mess and eliminates the left "throw".

I have had no static issues, leaking, etc. with the Schecter Shnozz. Ordinary laser printer paper continues to hold up well even after several weeks. I haven't tried plastic, although I do have both plastic milk jugs and thin plastic cutting board sheets if I ever decide to go that route.

Personally, I'm not a fan of dosers. I've left the doser on my Robur, but have another "project" Mazzer arriving this week. I plan to pull the doser and continue experimenting with doserless designs, even if they require the WDT. :-P
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Re: Mazzer SJ Single Basket Spout Mod

Post by RapidCoffee » Thu Jan 29, 2009 12:01 am

JohnB wrote:That plastic mod template looks much more complicated then is required for the SJ. Is the Robur opening different?
Yeah, I think it's designed to screw into place. Andy's shnozz is just a cone that presses into the doser opening.

I honestly can't remember any specific differences between the SJ and Robur dosers. I pulled the doser on my SJ a couple of years ago, then dug it out of the basement and reattached it just before shipping the grinder off to its new owner. Mazzer dosers all look pretty similar to me. Sorry. :-?
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Re: Mazzer SJ Single Basket Spout Mod

Post by JohnB » Thu Jan 29, 2009 9:19 am

Endo wrote:
Now I'm being misquoted. I said I didn't like the "paper Schozz". I'm going to try the plastic. The paper one I tried from AndyS didn't fit very well, fell out, leaked grounds and collect static. I believe the more compllcated template, made from plastic will work better. We'll see.
You seem to be the only one who's ever mentioned having problems with it. I'll leave it at that.
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Re: Mazzer SJ Single Basket Spout Mod

Post by JohnB » Thu Jan 29, 2009 9:23 am

RapidCoffee wrote: Personally, I'm not a fan of dosers. I've left the doser on my Robur, but have another "project" Mazzer arriving this week. I plan to pull the doser and continue experimenting with doserless designs, even if they require the WDT. :-P
After using the funnel conversion on my older SJ for over a month I wish you luck. I would never consider this set up on my regular espresso grinder. It's a static clumpfest that makes me regret spending the $$ every time I use it. If things don't go better with the Vac Pot grind the doser will go back on & another shnozz will be made.
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Re: Mazzer SJ Single Basket Spout Mod

Post by RapidCoffee » Thu Jan 29, 2009 10:50 am

JohnB wrote: After using the funnel conversion on my older SJ for over a month I wish you luck. I would never consider this set up on my regular espresso grinder. It's a static clumpfest that makes me regret spending the $$ every time I use it. If things don't go better with the Vac Pot grind the doser will go back on & another shnozz will be made.
Sorry to hear that. I've got a friend who did the cheapo plastic pop bottle doserless mod on his Mini. Static isn't much of an issue, even though we live in a dry region. It's surprising that the stainless steel funnel produces so much static.

My doserless mod is outlined on threads here and here. I pulled the doser and cut a piece of aluminum flashing to cover the hole. A brass spout slips in and out of a rubber gasket over the grinding chamber exit hole, allowing you to easily brush out every last grind. This was a prototype, obviously looks very homemade (I'm sure you could do a much better job :smile: ), but it worked really well for over three years. I had to replace the rubber gasket yearly, no big deal. No static issues, but clumping was a problem (hence the WDT).

I'd like to experiment with a screen placed inside the removable spout. This would help break up clumps, but still allow sweeping out the exit chute. The spout would benefit from a greater downwards pitch, so I might try to cut off one end at an angle. Any suggestions are appreciated.

BTW, this discussion is getting somewhat off track. Perhaps a thread split is in order?
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Re: Mazzer SJ Single Basket Spout Mod

Post by Endo » Thu Jan 29, 2009 12:08 pm

JohnB wrote: You seem to be the only one who's ever mentioned having problems with it. I'll leave it at that.
I doubt you can "leave it at that". ;-)

My problems with the "paper schnozz" are about fit and static. I think both will be addressed by the plastic version.
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Re: Mazzer SJ Single Basket Spout Mod

Post by JohnB » Thu Jan 29, 2009 12:26 pm

RapidCoffee wrote:
BTW, this discussion is getting somewhat off track. Perhaps a thread split is in order?
Where do you think you are? H-B? :lol:
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Re: Mazzer SJ Single Basket Spout Mod

Post by JohnB » Thu Jan 29, 2009 12:31 pm

RapidCoffee wrote: My doserless mod is outlined on threads here and here. I pulled the doser and cut a piece of aluminum flashing to cover the hole. A brass spout slips in and out of a rubber gasket over the grinding chamber exit hole, allowing you to easily brush out every last grind. This was a prototype, obviously looks very homemade (I'm sure you could do a much better job :smile: ), but it worked really well for over three years. I had to replace the rubber gasket yearly, no big deal. No static issues, but clumping was a problem (hence the WDT).
I looked at those pages before springing for the funnel kit. Inventive but the plumbing fitting look wouldn't cut it in the kitchen & of course there is the dreaded clumpfest.
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Re: Mazzer SJ Single Basket Spout Mod

Post by Endo » Thu Jan 29, 2009 1:22 pm

RapidCoffee wrote: I'd like to experiment with a screen placed inside the removable spout. This would help break up clumps, but still allow sweeping out the exit chute. The spout would benefit from a greater downwards pitch, so I might try to cut off one end at an angle. Any suggestions are appreciated.
My feeling is that most issues arise from the simple exit chute design. The best solutiion would be one that allowed the grinnds to fly out with greater speed, making for a cleaner chute (no sweeping) and would break up any clumps by flinging them against the doser wall.

I think the big planar burr grindrers achieve this with greater tip speed (tangential velocity) but a slower turning speed. But a "curved" exit chute might achieve a similar result.

If I had a spare SJ body to carve up, I'd be Dremeling out that chute to give me a good 30 deg exit angle.
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Re: Mazzer SJ Single Basket Spout Mod

Post by RapidCoffee » Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:49 pm

Endo wrote:My feeling is that most issues arise from the simple exit chute design. The best solutiion would be one that allowed the grinnds to fly out with greater speed, making for a cleaner chute (no sweeping) and would break up any clumps by flinging them against the doser wall.

I think the big planar burr grindrers achieve this with greater tip speed (tangential velocity) but a slower turning speed. But a "curved" exit chute might achieve a similar result.

If I had a spare SJ body to carve up, I'd be Dremeling out that chute to give me a good 30 deg exit angle.
Good observations. There have been posts on H-B about modding a Robur exit chute in that fashion. I'm not going that route any time in the near future.
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Re: Mazzer SJ Single Basket Spout Mod

Post by JohnB » Thu Jan 29, 2009 3:42 pm

RapidCoffee wrote:
JohnB wrote:Where do you think you are? H-B? :lol:
I can wish, can't I? :-P
I don't know, sometimes the intense supervision on H-B gets a little over bearing. I like the S1 forum just the way it is.
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