Water Damage to Kitchen

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BillK

Water Damage to Kitchen

Post by BillK »

I am just finishing up on a bad experience. While in AZ we got a call from the caretaker of our place in MN, who told us that we had a leak that caused water to ruin the hardwood floor in our kitchen. From AZ, I coordinated a lot of work, including tearout, asbestos mitigation on old vinyl, new floor installation. We are now back in MN and nearly have our kitchen back.

The problem was a double failure. It is never just one thing, of course. I had turned the water off at the meter, where it enters the house (normally turn it off at the curb, too, but did not do this this time). Turns out that the shutoff valve at the meter had a leak of about two drips/second. This kept pressure on a refrigerator plastic line, which was brittle, and failed. The drip was undetectable by the caretaker because it was so slow, and leaked under the floor boards, and evidence surfaced only when the hardwood floor began to heave and twist. Big mess, big expense.

I want to do all sensible things to minimize future exposure to these kinds of problems, so one thing I did was talk to my plumber at length about the common points of failure he sees, and what, if anything, I can do about them. He says that RO systems (which he will not install), refrigerators, and dishwashers are the main culprits. I do not have an RO system. I am no longer going to use the ice cube maker in my refrigerator, as he says that the plastic lines are a real problem. My dishwasher is hard plumbed, and I see nothing more to do with it. So, the usual suspects are taken care of. He changed the defective shutoff valve, and added a second after the meter, as is now code in our part of the world. So I have a double shutoff on the main water supply. I asked him if he has ever seen a water meter leak, and he told me that he has seen it but only when they are frozen hard.

Which brings me to the espresso machine, and John Guest and the Filters (hint: this is not a rock group). We talked about all the possible points of failure, and there are many. He reminded me that none of these connections or components are approved for use, which I knew. I really don't care about this, per se. what I want to know is what fails. I was focused on the fittings. He says that he has not seen a lot of problems with the fittings. He says that Culligan sells fittings that are supposedly double o-ringed. This seems like a good investment to me. What he was focused on was the lines themselves. He says he has seen problem after problem with plastic lines. I have no idea what quality of tubing we are getting when we buy a Chris kit.

I don't have any exposure with it when we are gone and the water pressure is shut off. However, this episode reminded me of how my setup could spring a leak and cause a lot of damage if we are gone for the day, or weekend.

My questions:

1. Anybody have any failures with any of the John Guest parts?

2. Anybody know of a higher grade of plastic tubing than what Chris sells?


BillK
JohnB

Re: Water Damage to Kitchen

Post by JohnB »

You might want to give Chris a call as far as the average lifespan of those parts goes but it sounds like he is selling pretty high quality stuff. From his website:

"This section is devoted to plumbing fittings. These are the same fittings we use in our coffee service business, John Guest, to install machines in convenient stores, law firms, coffee houses, hospitals, etc., etc. John Guest fittings are considered by most everyone in our industry to be the very best fittings available. An example of that quality is the tubing we sell, with a PSI ratting of 230 pounds."

You might be interested in this thread on H-B: http://www.home-barista.com/forums/floo ... t7521.html I would think the ideal set up would be installing all copper piping from your main to right under the machine.
Niko

Re: Water Damage to Kitchen

Post by Niko »

I think the JG fittings are very nice quality.
I've had one fail and for the record, it wasn't from Chris' - I had from somewhere but to make a long story short, water did leak everywhere but I was lucky to catch the mess before it got serious. I think it was a about 3 days worth of leaking :twisted:
The real luck was that my wife kept a bunch of junk under the sink including a small tub that caught it all :lol:
The JG fitting didn't break on its own, it must've been knocked around enough under there (you should really see my sink :oops: ) to cause it to snap. The leak was very slow but enough to do damage in the long run.
I see no problem with the tubing, maybe a replacement every 5-8 years for all the parts would be a good idea ;-)
BillK

Re: Water Damage to Kitchen

Post by BillK »

Niko, you were luckeee! Good for you. I wish I was so lucky.

John, thanks! for the info on the tubing and the H-B thread. I feel better about the tubing, that is for sure.

The H-B thread points out to me that there is a range of options, and what I do depends on how conservative I want to get about this.

I am now vowed to never again have this problem while I am gone for an extended period of time. I have written on the blackboard fifty times, "I will not leave home without shutting off the water at the curb, as well as in the basement".

The question then becomes, what to do about leaks that can occur while we are at home.

I dunno about devices that cause the water to be shut off if water is detected. These kinds of systems add parts, which add new possible points of failure. I think I like the Ken Fox method - ten dollar devices that emit an alarm if they sense wetness. Get a handful and put 'em where water would be most likely. I think this, combined with vigilence of dumb things like garden hose type connections to dishwashers and refrigerators seems sensible. I have to think it through, do what is reasonable, and at some point call it a day and fall back to the insurance policy.
Niko

Re: Water Damage to Kitchen

Post by Niko »

Those alarm devices work pretty well.
I worked in a photo lab a long time ago where we used something like that for the boiler room. They emitted an excruciating, piercingly, horrific squeal when the water level reached a certain point. Happened at least once a week :lol:

...bottom line is that we never flooded :thumbleft:
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