screen configuration and diffuser questions

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nicfortin
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screen configuration and diffuser questions

Post by nicfortin » Sat Aug 09, 2008 2:09 pm

Hello S1 Owners and fans.
First post here, proud owner since last May.

Been playing with shower screens configuration lately and 2 questions/concern come up.
1- Is everyone using the screen configuration (small screen inverted and inside the bigger one) is having water coming from the sides of screens as showed by arrow A?

2- I have a fairly good amout of grounds that crawl up (during expansion I guess) on the side of the diffuser as seen by arrow B, is it normal? Maybe it's the design? Of all 10-12 machines (commercial and not) I've worked with it's the first time I see a gap that big so grounds can easily get there and stay there...
screen.jpg
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Thx.
Have a good shot! :D

nic
Treat your coffees with respect! ;-)

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chas
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Re: screen configuration and diffuser questions

Post by chas » Sat Aug 09, 2008 2:36 pm

Since way back in the early S1 days when Chris Coffee started shipping the thinner diffuser disk, most folks stopped using this configuration. When the thicker disks were used the alternate screen configuration allowed more grounds to be used. With the thinner diffuser disk this is no longer required.

Since the screens are not designed to be used in the alternate configuration, it is possible to warp the disks so they don't fit snuggly together. This can cause them to not seal well against the diffusion disk. You might check yours to see if this is way is happening.
Chas
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PBL
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Re: screen configuration and diffuser questions

Post by PBL » Sun Aug 10, 2008 12:08 pm

Agree with Chas. When the S1 small screen is inverted and inside the bigger screen it will squeeze water out on the sides of the two diffusers because they do not sit snuggly on the shower-head block. This may also be why the grinds are moving around when the shots are being pulled. Putting the big shower head with is outside edge against the block and small shower head with the outside edge against the big shower head tighened snuggly will ensure that the water will not be coming out the side.

With respect to the grinds, a few go up the side, but very little if the portafilter is good and snug. Running a water shot generally cleans out all the loose grinds. Periodic cleaning with the brush (some refer to it as the barbecue brush) brings everything back to new! :D

Welcome to the forum. Great forum and great machine. The S1 sure makes great espresso. :D

Salut!
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nicfortin
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Re: screen configuration and diffuser questions

Post by nicfortin » Sun Aug 10, 2008 12:51 pm

chas wrote:Since way back in the early S1 days when Chris Coffee started shipping the thinner diffuser disk, most folks stopped using this configuration. When the thicker disks were used the alternate screen configuration allowed more grounds to be used. With the thinner diffuser disk this is no longer required.

Since the screens are not designed to be used in the alternate configuration, it is possible to warp the disks so they don't fit snuggly together. This can cause them to not seal well against the diffusion disk. You might check yours to see if this is way is happening.
Thanks for this info.
I got my S1 directly from the importer so it's not a VII
From the info sticker:
N.F. 254794
01/2008
S1 Vivaldi, 115V

The diffuser I have on mine has the star pattern so I'm guessing it's the thicker one?... That's why I've tried the alternate configuration.
I've switch back to original screens configuration (after "unwarping" the nut hole of big screen...) and no more dripping from the sides. Why try to "fix" something unbroken hey? :roll:

Thanks again and have a nice shot!
nic
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chas
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Re: screen configuration and diffuser questions

Post by chas » Sun Aug 10, 2008 2:35 pm

When using the alternate screen configuration what I discovered - after warping one set of screens - is the need to put a washer between the screens. That prevents them from warping and makes the whole set up mode snug fitting.
Chas
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nicfortin
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Re: screen configuration and diffuser questions

Post by nicfortin » Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:40 am

Hello again,

Here's what I did.
I've ordered the 11mm diffuser. It should help whti when I want updose.
And I've modified the (sorry english is not my 1st language...) holes in both screens and the diffuser so it accept a screws from a diffeent machine which is a better fit IMO then the stock bolt.
See pics.
Attachments
LaSpaz S1 - 1.jpg
LaSpaz S1 - 1.jpg (94.53 KiB) Viewed 2674 times
LaSpaz S1 - 4.jpg
LaSpaz S1 - 4.jpg (101.27 KiB) Viewed 2674 times
LaSpaz S1 - 2.jpg
LaSpaz S1 - 2.jpg (170.95 KiB) Viewed 2671 times
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Endo
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Re: screen configuration and diffuser questions

Post by Endo » Wed Dec 17, 2008 8:11 pm

Sorry for bringing up an old post but:

I just got my new Mini Vivaldi and it also came directly from the importer and does not have the thinner diffuser disk.

I saw on the S1 site that the old diffuser was 13mm and the new one is 11mm. But still, I weighed my dose today and I can get 18g in my double basket, and still lock in my PF easily. What's up with that? Is my coffee more dense...or just me? :-? Did LaSpaziale make the double basket deeper recently?

I was thinking of ordering the thinner disk from CC for $18, but my shots have been good so I'm now not sure if I need to.

I guess the only way to know for sure is to order it and try them back-to-back.
Endo

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Niko
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Re: screen configuration and diffuser questions

Post by Niko » Wed Dec 17, 2008 8:44 pm

The baskets do vary from batch to batch.
Some of the double baskets fit 16g's and others 18. I have 4 baskets that fit 16 grams, two that fit 18 and one freak that fits 20g.
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Endo
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Re: screen configuration and diffuser questions

Post by Endo » Wed Dec 17, 2008 9:22 pm

Good to know. Since I'm getting 18g (my ideal dose... in my opinion) I think I'll avoid going to the thinner diffuser. After all, the thicker one will hold more heat.....so it's a win-win.

Can I buy the 20g from you? :grin:
Endo

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"It's the coffee, stupid."

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chas
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Re: screen configuration and diffuser questions

Post by chas » Wed Dec 17, 2008 10:26 pm

I did a bunch of temperature testing with both diffusers after I got the thinner one for my original S1. I couldn't detect that the thicker disk added temperature stability.

ON the other hand I like the star pattern of the holes in the thicker disk better than the having all the holes in a circle on the thinner disk. It seems like that would make the water distribution more even.
Chas
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Niko
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Re: screen configuration and diffuser questions

Post by Niko » Thu Dec 18, 2008 1:15 pm

Interesting, I wonder why they would change the pattern for the thinner disk. :-?
Seems like the star pattern would do a better job.
La Spaz VII (with timer) S5 Steam Arm & Passive Pre-Infusion, Mazzer Mini E Type B, MACAP MC4 Doserless,
MACAP Autotamper, 3 Thor tampers, Espro convex & CoffeeLabs tamper.
Scace Device, Alessi steam pitchers, Motta Steam pitcher, etc..

La Spaz S1 S5 Steam Arm w/ progressive preinfusion, Compak K3 Touch Doserless, Espro flat tamp
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Endo
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Re: screen configuration and diffuser questions

Post by Endo » Fri Dec 19, 2008 9:53 am

I can think of one simple reason: It's cheaper (faster) to drill holes in a circular pattern. All you need to do is index your part on the rotary table.

Furthermore, the real reason for going thinner is probably to save material cost. Heck, if people are asking for thinner and it saves money, why not?

I agree that the old staggered pattern should be better. Although I doubt anyone could tell the difference in the cup.
Endo

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bluesman13

Re: screen configuration and diffuser questions

Post by bluesman13 » Tue Jan 06, 2009 1:33 pm

In reference to the screens:

Last night when I was cleaning the screens and backflushing I noticed something interesting. I was under the impression that my machine shipped with the larger screen against the diffuser block and the the smaller one on the outside of the larger one. When I was re-attaching the screens, I noticed that the smaller screen has an indentation in it that allows it to fit snugly against the diffuser block and the larger screen over that. I pulled a shot this am with the screens in that configuration, but didn't really notice a difference.

Comments?


Steve

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Endo
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Re: screen configuration and diffuser questions

Post by Endo » Mon Jan 12, 2009 12:04 am

I tried all the "reverse screen" methods shown on this site, but to be honest, I just don't get it.

The large inside screen is flat. The small outside screen has a recess. If you put the larger screen on the outside you can pull the bolt head into the screen if you overtighten (no matter how you flip them). Also the bolt head sticks out more into the puck, which I think is a bad thing (at least on my Silvia it was).

I read all the reasonsing, but it all just seems silly. I'll stick with the stock setup the way LaSpaziale designed it.

And by the way, it tasted the same to me as well.
Endo

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chas
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Re: screen configuration and diffuser questions

Post by chas » Mon Jan 12, 2009 10:32 am

It was really a trick earlier S1 users came up with, when LaSpaz used the thicker diffusion disk and there were no triple baskets, in order to squeeze a few more grams of coffee into the baskets. Once LaSpaz switched to the thinner disk and/or some folks got triple baskets most everyone stopped doing this.

Your observation is correct that when you use the alternate configuration the screens don't mesh together correctly and you can warp the screens when you tighten the bolt. I have a warped set as a testament to that fact. If you want to use the alternate configuration the trick is to put a washer between the screens to fill the gap. I mentioned that several posts back in this same thread.
Chas
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