CUPS

General Questions and Comments that fit no specific category.
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Niko

CUPS

Post by Niko »

What is everyone's favorite cup? I'd like to know what people are pulling their favorite drinks into.
Zzyzx

Post by Zzyzx »

I like the ACF cup for cappuccinos & I use a clear glass cup for americanos. Espressos, just clear shot glass. There is a lot of nice ones out there, it drives my wife crazy when she sees another cup shipment come in.

I know this is not coffee related, but I really like drinking cold liquids out of Mexican bubble glasses as well :)
Niko

Post by Niko »

Viva Pavina!
I got at least a dozen in different sizes, really nice mouth-blown stuff that Bodum creates.

The ACF's ROCK THE HOUSE.
I think these cups are the best in the world.
Period.
I have several dozen in all sizes from ACF.
The only thing that bothers me about Illy cappuccino cups is that they don't fit very well under the spouts, other than being way, way, way, way overpriced.
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Weska

Post by Weska »

Hmm. For myself, pulling a double without sugar, it's a Bodum Assam in the roughly 3 ounce size.

For others, when it's a double with sugar and occasionally for me, I've got a set of thin porcelain cups, with an inverted flare, white with a prominent cobalt stripe, that I bought in Madrid. These I pair with teardrop shaped spoons from an airport shop in Rome.

For capuccinos for me, it's a very routine double-walled stainless job that I got for free at work (rounded bottom so that I can fruitlessly practice latte art). Then for others, it's our usual bought-at-IKEA black stoneware cups with a squarish cross-section. The art here is usually etched.
Sleepless

Post by Sleepless »

Definitely the Bodum Pavina. I have several sizes for different drinks.

- Steve
Niko

Post by Niko »

Weska wrote:Hmm. For myself, pulling a double without sugar, it's a Bodum Assam in the roughly 3 ounce size.
Sugar? What is sugar?...I haven't put that stuff in my drinks in years.
The Pavina sounds popular, for good reason, the heat renention is amazing on them.
Weska, I'd love to see some of the etching in your latte art if you have any available to post.
Weska

Post by Weska »

Well, there's this one from a few days ago that my visiting friends felt they had to record.
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And there's this one from a long time ago that worked out pretty well. I'm not even sure I could duplicate it today without revisiting the process for a bit.
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And both are in those IKEA cups.

I also make a simpler three-point version of the second one for my wife who favors a tall all-glass Irish coffee cup from Jenaglas.
Niko

Post by Niko »

Nice work!
Makes me want to fly out to Moscow and have a few drinks with you.
What tool do you use to do the etching in the milk? I've never tried that myself.
Weska

Post by Weska »

You would be welcome to visit! We have one very decent cafe chain and a rather exceptional coffee culture that makes midday and evening much busier in the cafes than breakfast.

The tool of choice is a thin wooden skewer, the kind that is sometimes called a cocktail skewer and is used in Thai and Indonesian restaurants for sate and other appetizer-sized grilled items.
woodchuck

Post by woodchuck »

I use ACF cups (black and white) for my caps and macchiatos and Bodum Pavina glasses for my espresso.

Cheers

Ian
Niko

Post by Niko »

I would love to visit Russia, my wife on the other hand would rather go to Greece...go figure.
I'm going to give that etching a go, do you turn the cup while you hold the skewer still or something like that? It looks simple enough but I'm sure it's complicated to the point of driving me mad, I love it.
New challenge.

...and I like those cups.



Ian,
What's your favorite size ACF cup?

...and what' this I see? - I forgot the Pistoletto Collection hiding behind the ACF's on the cup warmer! So much for bad-mouthing Illy, they're still nice cups to look at.

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Weska

Post by Weska »

No turning. It's the skewer that moves, and you get better designs if you do a sort of sewing machine up-and-down motion to be sure that you are dragging brown crema that is dragged off the skewer when it's going through the milk foam.

The simplest to start would be the first. You do a high pour to sink most of the milk under the crema. As it gets to be foam only in the pitcher, you drop it near the surface and pour a stripe. You then run your skewer from crema into foam and back again, doing that up-and-down thing. One extra stroke with a crema-loaded skewer down the center finishes the design.
Niko

Post by Niko »

Thanks for the info, I'll give it a try this weekend. If you don't hear anything from me, it's probably because I'll be so embarassed in how badly it turns out for me. Someday, when it gets good enough I'll post a pic.
I've always wanted to try etching but I've never even seen it done in person before so I didn't know where to start.
Martin

Re: CUPS

Post by Martin »

Niko wrote:What is everyone's favorite cup? I'd like to know what people are pulling their favorite drinks into.
Ah, favorite cups. Would that I could drink enough to use all that I have. I love the Bodum double walls (got some of each). But lately I've been back to Illy. (Just soooo Italian!) I wish I could say that Illy suits my style, but it's probably more that I fashion my style to suit whatever Illy provides.

I only have two Illly cappa cups, (the pen tests). Perfect fit for 3 oz of 1% and a longish ristretto. I've got more espresso-size choices, and try not to ignore any. Currently, I probably favor the nudes, but for company I like to gross out my guests with those cups that picture disembodied pieces of baby dolls (I'll have to check the box for the artist).
Martin
Niko

Re: CUPS

Post by Niko »

Martin wrote:Ah, favorite cups. Would that I could drink enough to use all that I have.
Martin
I couldn't have said that better myself!

Martin,
I had no idea that Illy had the pen test series in a cappa size. The espresso sized Illys make no sense for me, the art is too small.
Can you post a pic of your pen test cappas?
RGoldman

Post by RGoldman »

The bodum pavinas in three different sizes. The double wall really makes a difference for me. I love the last sip to be as hot as the first. They fit in your hand nicely and never get hot on the outside!
The ACF's look nice. Where do you get them? I'd like to check out the prices and see if they are something I might use when we have company.
I wouldn't want anyone breaking one of my pavinas!
Niko

Post by Niko »

This guy is the U.S. importer for ACF cups, I think everybody else gets them from him.
http://www.greatinfusions.com/nrocup.html
They recently took another price hike thanks to the Euro.
I have about 60 of these cups in all the sizes except for Latte.
BillK

Post by BillK »

I always liked the look and feel of the cups used by Black Sheep Coffee in St. Paul, MN. The owner is exceedingly astute in terms of asthetics, practicality and cost. Not a bad barista, either: I just found out that he place sixth in the national barista championships. Nice going, Peter!!!

At any rate, I asked him what his cups are, and he said Seng Ware. He sold me a couple of them to try out, and I liked them so much that I have purchased a lot more, from Visions Espresso in Seattle.

What I like about the cups is that they are nicely shaped, comfortable, inexpensive, and they have a great finish on them. They are just perfect for my everyday use. I like the cappa cup especially, as it is a bit smaller than some and is nicely shaped for pouring latte art. I just ordered a half dozen in a variety of colors, and they are all nice. I think the cost was about five bucks for each cup and saucer. You won't go far wrong at that price. Visions Espresso is reliable.

I have the Bodum Pavina cups, and I don't use them much. They are showey, but they don't transfer heat very well and the brew stays uncomfortably hot for me.
Niko

Post by Niko »

BillK wrote: I have the Bodum Pavina cups, and I don't use them much. They are showey, but they don't transfer heat very well and the brew stays uncomfortably hot for me.
Interesting how you wrote exactly what I was thinking, the heat stays a little too long for me also. I like how a drink changes flavor as it cools. Whenever I use my Pavinas to drink, the flavors are a little different.
I agree with you on Visions, they are a pretty good place to shop. I bought many things from them in the past, pitchers and cups among a few things. They have a really good pitcher selection, the Mottas (Europa) and Alessi are a couple of good ones they carry.
Jesse

Post by Jesse »

I have a bunch of the Bodum's, in my case "Canteen" style, and I just love them for shots of espresso. They're about 3 oz and just gorgeous. One of them lost its vacuum immediately and fogged, but otherwise I've been impressed by the durability of the borosilicate glass.

Historically, for capps I've used a bunch of crackelure sets that I had made by Jars in France (limoges porcelain with a lovely glaze)--but those are in storage with all the Illy collectors cups, so right now I am enjoying the LavAzza cappuccino cups from Chris Coffee.

The LavAzza cups are an unusual shape that I quite like and have handles that are not, what is often referred to as, "fingertraps". The Feldspar porcelain is also quite thermally stable--and I love the saucers.
woodchuck

Post by woodchuck »

Niko, sorry about responding a bit late. I love the 5oz cups. Just right for a short cap.

Cheers

Ian
Niko

Post by Niko »

I used to pull all my caps in the 6 oz cups, a while back I started using the 5 oz and haven't gone back since. Something about those 5's that seem just right, not too much coffee - not too much milk...perfect. What's even better about the ACF 5oz over the Illy is that the cups actually fit under the spouts.
I was thinking of ordering some of the Latte ACF cups for my morning cereal or oatmeal, they're certainly big enough at 10 oz. Some people pull double lungo cappas in those things, that's just way too much liquid for me. Anyone using the 10oz ACF's? I would love to see a pic of one of those beasties next to a normal cup.
Zzyzx

Post by Zzyzx »

Niko wrote: Anyone using the 10oz ACF's?
Niko,

I have 4 of the brown 10oz ACF cups. I like to make americanos in them as well.
Niko

Post by Niko »

Ahh...back to the cups thread.
I ran into some major luck a couple of weeks ago with some Illy cups. I somehow became a collector of these things without realizing it. I found 16 Illy bar cups that somebody was selling for $30, this was literally a steal since they are a collection series that never hit the general public. I scored 3 espresso cups and the rest of them are cappuccino size (even nicer since that size is harder to find).
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Niko

Post by Niko »

Poor Miss iLLy!
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chas
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Post by chas »

Did you have one of those "Greek", throw the dishes parties?
Chas
LM GS/3 & LaSpaziale Dream v 1.25 (US 120V)
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Niko

Post by Niko »

I did, but forgot to put the Rosenthal stuff away damn it!

No, that poor cup (along with another cup) didn't survive a cross country trip through the mail.
Niko

Post by Niko »

Here's one of my all-time favorite cups.
Unfortunately, I dare not drink from it...
Image

Am I the only Illy Collector on this forum?
...I know there has to be more beautiful cups out there to post pics of :read:
EricC

Post by EricC »

Niko wrote:Am I the only Illy Collector on this forum?
...I know there has to be more beautiful cups out there to post pics of :read:
Nope, I have the following sets :

Minimalia (Mimmo Paladino),

P.S.1 [cappuccino size ] Bar Set (Koop, Lehmann, Mac William, Montserrat, Murai, Zawada),

Haim Steinbach (Haim Steinbach)

Haim Steinbach 5th Cup (Haim Steinbach)

and finally the Illy Nude set.

Regards
Eric
Niko

Post by Niko »

EricC wrote: P.S.1 [cappuccino size ] Bar Set
I love the frog cup! It's my favorite in that series. So you have the bar set...?
Sometimes those are worth more than the "Collection" cups :wink:
alsterling

Cups from Brasil and Argentina

Post by alsterling »

Our family is in Brasil. It seems someone, or all of us, are down there at least a few times each year. On a recent return trip from Sao Paulo and into Argentina, our oldest daughter brought back some gifts; a cup set from a cafe in Buenos Aires and a set from Sao Paulo. The Brasil set sees action every morning. I crank out my ristretto macchiato, using Malabar Gold. My macchiato is "extended", in that I go beyond the dollop of foam and add maybe 1 to 1 1/2 ounces of the steamed milk. Both cups top off at 3 oz. I'm going to add.......those shots from Weska in Moscow were incredible! At 7am, I'm just thankful to get the milk and foam into the cup and not all over the counter!

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Weska

Post by Weska »

Thanks for the compliment, alsterling. I can do those at around 7:30 to 8:00. But that's because I'm not one of those that needs coffee (or caffeine in any form) to get going. I get going slowly, but as long as I get my coffee when it comes is not important.

These days I usually shower, feed the cat, empty the dishwasher, heat a bottle for the soon-to-wake boy, and then turn to coffee--my wife's first if she is already up. A few etchings fit without my even noticing in that routine.

If only I could pour a rosetta! I try every day, twice normally. All I ever get is a kind of sprig.
alsterling

Moscow...is that a challenge for specialty coffee?

Post by alsterling »

Weska..........

My first thoughts, having never been to Moscow, but with a Father from Leningrad, and conversations with what little family on my Father's side is left (one male MD Psychiatrist cousin in his 70's also living in SoCal) is that while Moscow was beautiful on his most recent visit, I can't get it out of my mind that the country, Russia, and the Ukraine in general, has had many years of financial struggle.

Please tell me, is there a middle class...how strong....and what about access to specialty coffee equipment and supplies and green beans for roasting, etc.???

Best, Al (family name "Guessen")
Weska

Post by Weska »

OK, alsterling, you are asking one of the right questions.

There is a rather fragile middle class growing. It doesn't amount to much yet, and it doesn't have much grasp of what we in the West believe supports a sustainable middle class. There is a growth of income for a great many, not to any very lofty level but the direction is agreeable.

One thing not much mentioned is that most Russians live rent-free. They took title to wherever they lived during perestroika and were able for many years to convert their dwelling(s) to private property. This means that, when a Russian gets some income, nearly all of it is disposable. Mortgages are still a novelty (although I have one). Only recently have property taxes begun to amount to something even noticeable, and utilities are still heavily subsidized.

Couple that with a nearly complete lack of vehicles for saving and investing--any that exist are almost surely not to be trusted--and you have a prescription for spending at a level that suggests much greater well-being than there is. IKEA finds that its Russian customers spend more per visit than those in many other more prosperous countries.

So, the middle class is a little elusive and maybe mostly an illusion. And I don't see that it is the kind of middle class that will turn Russia into a Western-style liberal democracy. (I don't necessarily even want that myself. I would be very pleased if Russia or someone would come up with a viable alternative system.) The closest thing to a public outcry happens when some ruling annoys automobile drivers.

What bothers me most is that only a very tiny minority here has much respect for liberal values. The easiest attitudes to sell lately are nationalistic ones in a dangerously paranoid mode. "How they all hate us and would like to bring us down!" This has echoes to me of Germany between the Wars, and the close collaboration of government and major economic units suggests fascism to me.

I hope that I'm the one that's paranoid, but I don't see any plausible force marshalling against the tendency to lock down everything under some sort of ineffective, but nevertheless very inconvenient, array of controls. Stated with maximum pessimism, Russia could become a police state that has lost the will and ability to control its criminals.
Weska

Post by Weska »

Oops, I forgot to mention coffee.

The coffee scene is rather peculiar. Starbucks has just settled a long-running trademark dispute and is opening its first two locations. There are many chains of cafes offering indifferent to lousy coffee, but there is one brilliant one that I study with pleasure hoping to duplicate their results at home. Coffee here is never carryout and usually is mostly an evening thing as a commercial proposition. One plus is that there are very few automatics used in cafes; however, this is beginning to change. Starbucks will probably accelerate that process.

There are a couple of roasters, intensely overpriced ones, and I can't find their coffees close enough to roasting date to compete with my own (rather incompentent) versions. Home preparation of coffee is usually instant with aficionados using an izbrik. Modern upscale people use autodrip machines.

Espresso machines for sale to consumers are mostly superautos. Single group pro-sumer machines are sold by suppliers to cafes. That's the kind of place where I ordered my Vivaldi.

Green coffee I order by surface mail from Sweet Maria's. I never found a local source. My guess is that I could easily buy a container but 20 lbs would be out of the question. My shipping charges add about 50% to the price of the beans, but it is still much cheaper than finished coffee roasted here or imported from Europe.

There. That ought to do for now.
alsterling

Post by alsterling »

Weska........so sorry for not acknowledging your very interesting dialogue on contemporary life in Russia. Such intelligent people, but such a droll and gray lifestyle.

I apologize, but I'm saddened that Russia has never, apparently, created for itself, a government that takes advantage of the available intellect. Such great minds have come from Russia. All anyone has to do is look at immigration during the turn of the 20th Century.

Our family includes musicians, like my Dad, who was a virtuoso concert violinist, and my 1st cousin, who became a noted psychiatirist, specializing in juvenile mental health issues.

Best for now.....it's almost midnight here and I've got to clear all my paperwork backlog tomorrow and through the weekend. My wife returns from Brasil the end of next week. (I procrastinate!)

Best, Al
Weska

Post by Weska »

There's no schedule at the S1 cafe. I'm pleased that I could say something that interests you, alsterling.

I agree that Russia has not been fortunate in its governments, maybe never been fortunate. And this has resulted in the expulsion, flight and waste of its very strong intellectual capital, which includes an amazing string of geniuses of many types.

I think one reason that Russians tolerate the governments they get is that, unlike the US, Russia has been overrun and occupied many times. In the background is the fear that history could repeat, and everything that appears to be against the interests of Russia is interpreted as a preparation to subjugate it.

Hence, strong (i.e. brutally repressive) leaders are more than acceptable. They are necessary. Being without one is almost unthinkable or at least very frightening for many.

The US flirts with the same ideas at times, but it snaps back after a short while. One reason is the strong tradition of interest in liberty, but another is that there is no plausible threat to the US that can compare to the reality of occupation that Russia has endured.
Niko

Post by Niko »

Al,
Did you know Illy has a Brasil set of espresso cups worth a small fortune? I sometimes see the set on eBay and actually placed an offer on one but the reserve was set too high. The seller never sold that set, he's probably waiting to put them up for auction again. The market is a little soft these days for a $500 set of six espresso cups, he was originally selling them as a "Buy it Now" for $600 and he turned down 3 offers after he re-listed them.
Anyways, they're extremely colorful and there's only 2,000 sets in existence and one of these days I'll be drinking from them!!! :twisted:
Niko

Post by Niko »

My latest acquisition, reflective rays painted in Platinum.
My precious..... :happy3:
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alsterling

I had no idea..........?

Post by alsterling »

You guys are awakening me to the thought of coming out with a set of "limited edition" espresso cups! I was director of the largest coining mint on the West Coast at one time, and worked with Milton Bradley, Parker Bros. on various "collectible" coin sets for their Monopoly games. I started by putting together the Star Wars Monopoloy coin set, then the NFL Monopoly coins and others.

I actually have cup suppliers and the ability to imprint, which is what I used to do when I owned one of my industrial graphics printing firms. All this talk about collectible sets is causing me to revisit that "entrepenuerial twitch" all over again! I was surprised that Mark Prince from CG hadn't come up with his own set of cups and saucers. The trick is to limit production, obviously, and even better, hand number each cup and saucer! .....Anybody feel like staying up late with a fine horsehair brush......and able to hand paint numbers like....."003/250" ???

My wife will be in Sao Paulo tomorrow, and I already called our family friend in Sao Paulo to start looking for any espresso sets that are imprinted and maybe collectible.
Niko

Post by Niko »

Count me in.
I'm sure your friend up here in SF would be very interested also since he frequents the same eBay auctions.

Here's the Brasil set in the tin:

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Here's how they're signed and numbered:
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This set has an inscription inside the cup walls as well:
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alsterling

Post by alsterling »

Niko.......

The photo of that Brasil set makes it look like miniatures? Without a human hand or reference, it's hard to tell the size; no dimensional references. Interesting.

Being with the coining mint, and manufacturing limited edition coins "on demand", I really developed an "attitude" about collectibles. At one time, limited production meant something. It had so much to do with lack of machinery for long runs, or the fact that production volumes were decided on smaller markets of the early 1900's or so. In some cases, it was because the raw materials were limited. How collectible will any of those "Kid's Meal Toys" be, given that they're made in the millions in China, and then distributed all over the place?

Nowadays, limited edition is used simply as a marketing tool. If we got together and agreed on artwork, I could commission the manufacture of quality espresso cup and saucer sets with any imprint imaginable. A really cherrywood, felt lined case, could be sourced locally and hot stamp imprinted. It's all about the marketing.

Sad thing is today........I perceive limited edition as someone standing at the spigot, simply turning it on and off whenever the market conditions are right. I think the general public has wised up, as I don't see as much activity with limited edition product marketing today.
Niko

Post by Niko »

They do look like miniatures, sorry I don't own that set so I can shoot a better pic to upload.

Just for example....
This cup goes for about $500-$800 on average depending on the mood. I've seen it go as high as $1000. There's only 1,000 in existence.
Image
This one is about the price of nice down payment for a BMW...if you can find one, the BMW is easier to acquire. There's only 97 of these in existence and good luck prying one out of some collectors dead cold fingers...
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alsterling

Post by alsterling »

Niko.......

To be fair, hand crafted and true limited edition items like these cup and saucers, because of the detail work and precious metal integration, are truly beautiful and have a value, aside from collectability. The integrity of the manufacturer or issuing entity, Illy in the case of some of these sets, does make a huge difference. I always snear when I see an ad in the newspaper for another "offering" from the Franklin Mint.
Niko

Post by Niko »

Yeah, I know what you mean...
it seems that everything is limited edition, their version of limited edition means a run of 250,000,000 (almost one for each person). Those (Illy) Brasil cups are awesome, the colors are so nice they just scream "drink from me". I've got so many Illy cups, lost count long ago...I don't even want to start thinking how much $$ :shock:
I like to drink from all of them but there's a select few I wouldn't dare touch, I leave them on a shelf to look at or just simply put them away out of earthquake danger.
alsterling

Post by alsterling »

Niko.......regarding the cups and all.....I just sent you an email via, I think, CG.....send me your phone info: alsterling@earthlink.net
Niko

Post by Niko »

Done!
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