Basic questions

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spazheadnewb

Basic questions

Post by spazheadnewb »

Hello All:

I'm fairly new to the espresso world and hoping to get some input.

My equipment is as follows:

(a) Mini Vivaldi II with a Nuova Simonelli MDX grinder

Espresso blends tried so far: Blue Bottle (Hayes Valley and Retrofit), Intellegensia Black Cat, Clive Coffee (Lovejoy espresso blend), Metropolis Redline

Espresso blends that I want to try: Counter Culture Espresso Toscano, Dallis Bros. (Ninth Street Espresso Alphabet City Blend), Redbird Espresso

My questions are:

(1) I recently picked up an escali digital scale (which I can return) so I could become more consistent with my dose. Do you think going to a scale in the 0.1 gram or 0.5 gram resolution would be beneficial? The escali scale is within 1gram. Before this I would basically just level the double basket and tamp. I just weighed my double basket with beans (tared of course) and it can hold 20grams of beans which is probably too much? I noticed somewhere endo posted between 15.5-16.5g is an ideal range. I know it varies by bean and hence that is why picking up a more accurate scale might be beneficial. I justd pulled a shot with 16grams and it tasted better to me than the shots that I have not been measuring.

(2) Would an espro tamper be a good tool to pick up? Quite expensive but might be worth it to improve consistency. However when I am looking at the pressure gauge on my machine I am usually at the 9-9.5 range.

(3) Adjusting the OPV. Currently I am at 10.5 with a blind filter. Probably best to get this down to 9.5 or 9.0 even though I can get to 9-9.5 pulling a shot?

(4) Pre-infusion. I know some say it doesn't matter but I'm thinking of picking up the mechanical chamber just to give it a try. For $80 it can't hurt to try it.

(5) Shot times. I'm not there yet with visually knowing when to stop the shot. My understanding with blonding is that once you notice a white speckle in your cup you should stop. Generally I shoot for about 2-2.5 ounces in about 25 -30 seconds and this includes the time from when I push the button not from when I notice the first stream of coffee.

(6) with respect to the above espresso blends does anyone have any parameters e.g. weight of coffee, temperature, time, etc?

Apologies in advance for asking questions that may have already been answered before.
Last edited by spazheadnewb on Mon Oct 22, 2012 11:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
Endo

Re: Basic questions

Post by Endo »

spazheadnewb wrote:
My questions are:

(1) I recently picked up an escali digital scale (which I can return) so I could become more consistent with my dose. Do you think going to a scale in the 0.1 gram or 0.5 gram resolution be beneficial? The escali scale is within 1gram. Before this I would basically just level the double basket and tamp. I just weighed my double basket with beans (tared of course) and it can hold 20grams of beans which is probably too much? I noticed somewhere endo posted between 15.5-16.5g is an ideal range. I know it varies by bean and hence that is why picking up a more accurate scale might be beneficial. I justd pulled a shot with 16grams and it tasted better to me than the shots that I have not been measuring.
0.1g resolution is definitely required. You can get great scales off eBay for $10 to $20.
spazheadnewb wrote:
(2) Would an espro tamper be a good tool to pick up? Quite expensive but might be worth it to improve consistency. However when I am looking at the pressure gauge on my machine I am usually at the 9-9.5 range.
Nice tamper, but not necessary. You can use a scale under your feet to get used to 30 lbs. I find it more useful to get familiar with the nutation technique instead. It is rather useful on the Vivaldi.
spazheadnewb wrote:
(3) Adjusting the OPV. Currently I am at 10.5 with a blind filter. Probably best to get this down to 9.5 or 9.0 even though I can get to 9-9.5 pulling a shot?
Very small impact. I'd leave it where it is for now. Work on prep technique instead.
spazheadnewb wrote:
(4) Pre-infusion. I know some say it doesn't matter but I'm thinking of picking up the mechanical chamber just to give it a try. For $80 it can't hurt to try it.
Same as 3.
spazheadnewb wrote:
(5) Shot times. I'm not there yet with visually knowing when to stop the shot. My understanding with blonding is that once you notice a white speckle in your cup you should stop. Generally I shoot for about 2-2.5 ounces in about 25 -30 seconds and this includes the time from when I push the button not from when I notice the first stream of coffee.
This is a problem. Aim for 1.5 oz in 30 seconds.
spazheadnewb wrote:
(6) with respect to the above espresso blends does anyone have any parameters e.g. weight of coffee, temperature, time, etc?
16g, 94C, 1.5 oz in 30 sec. Start with this then change one variable at a time to see what effect it has. Once you know, adjust to suit your taste.
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slo
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Posts: 419
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 6:51 pm
Location: Montreal, Canada

Re: Basic questions

Post by slo »

1) While it is not "absolutely required", I strongly recommend using a scale that gives you at least 0.1g resolution.
I use the very same as this one (more than a year and still going.
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Mini-Electronic- ... 48498e7183

2) The Espro is only useful to calibrate yourself. Any tamper that you feel comfortable with will tamp properly and even possibly better. I personally seldom tamp up to 30lbs but it depends on the coffee. There are coffees/grind setting/doses combinations, in my opinion, that require a harder tamp, sometime much more than 30lbs. and some that require a lighter touch. The Espro will not help you in tamping with different loads but it could help you in learning effectively what a 30lbs tamp feels like.

3) The pressure that you see with a blind basket is useless. If the pressure is at 9.0 bar during the shot it is pretty good. I keep mine between 8.5 to 9.0 bar. This will affect the taste a lot. You should adjust to the pressure that gives you the best taste result but a "running shot" at 9.0 bar is a good start.

4)I am a very strong believer in pre-infusion, but never tried the mechanical chamber. I defer to others on this subject.

5)I disagree with Endo on this. Although I certainly do enjoy a nice 1.5 or even 1.0 ristretto shot often. It is still my opinion that 2.0 oz (60ml) in 30 seconds is a better target. When a shot starts to blonde before 2.0 oz I will certainly cut it short but will adjust the dose or grind setting to achieve (or try) 2.0 oz.

6) Never uses coffee from US roasters anymore... roast myself. I should start again to get a point of comparison.

Do not apologies for asking this questions. Answering these questions helps us think about what we are doing and maybe gets us out of our comfort zone.
Vivaldi II, Multiple (a collection really) Lever machines
Currently on deck grinders: Mythos and MXKR
Backup grinders: Robur, Major.
Toper Cafemino Electric and Poppery 1 roaster

I have a serious problem ... Can you guess what?
spazheadnewb

Re: Basic questions

Post by spazheadnewb »

Thanks Endo and Slo!

Appreciate the input. Endo/Slo with respect to achieving the 8.5/9.0 bar of pressure it all depends on the grind and the tamp so I guess between these two variables the tamp should be the same and the grind will change. Or could you look at it as the grind will stay the same within a certain range and the tamp will vary? I usually adjust the grind and then try to tamp the same. Sometimes I am off and hit 10-10.5 bars of pressure so I know I adjusted the grind too fine but sometimes when I grind too fine the coffee is softer and I am probably tamping with more than 30lb.

Also with nutation I found this video:

http://www.home-barista.com/tips/nutati ... 12625.html

Is the knocking of the grounds absolutely necessary?

Lastly I am thinking of taking a class locally with this person teaching it but probably a class from one of the espresso shops in NYC might also be just as good.

Adult Hands-On Class: Be Your Own Barista, $40

A unique opportunity to learn from a master! This class lasts approximately two hours.

A Master Barista for Trieste, the Italy-based Illy Cafe, Instructor Giorgio Milos is one of the world's most foremost experts on coffee. He is a past winner of the Italian Barista Championship, a Specialty Coffee Association of Europe Certified Master Barista and is on faculty at Illy's Universitadel Caffe, where fine restaurants and cafes go for their coffee and espresso training. Register now for this unique hands-on coffee experience!

It's only $40 and I'm hoping the past winner of the Italian Barista Championships doesn't push Illy too much. I know he has too but I'm not too fond of Illy for espresso. Maybe for drip.

Thanks again.
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slo
Barista
Posts: 419
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 6:51 pm
Location: Montreal, Canada

Re: Basic questions

Post by slo »

I am not a big fan of Illy. And not only because it is a bit "aged" before it gets to us in the Americas . Just not my favorite style of espresso blend. The course might be interesting nonetheless.

The effect of tamping is one or two order of magnitude less than the grind setting. You should concentrate more on the grind setting and on the dose than the tamping.
spazheadnewb wrote:Is the knocking of the grounds absolutely necessary?
No actually the knocking is a bad thing that is no longer encouraged by most but is still being done by some. The current understanding is that the knocking risk creating a gap between the puck and the side of the basket thus creating a low resistance path for the water.
Vivaldi II, Multiple (a collection really) Lever machines
Currently on deck grinders: Mythos and MXKR
Backup grinders: Robur, Major.
Toper Cafemino Electric and Poppery 1 roaster

I have a serious problem ... Can you guess what?
Endo

Re: Basic questions

Post by Endo »

spazheadnewb wrote:Endo/Slo with respect to achieving the 8.5/9.0 bar of pressure it all depends on the grind and the tamp so I guess between these two variables the tamp should be the same and the grind will change. Or could you look at it as the grind will stay the same within a certain range and the tamp will vary? I usually adjust the grind and then try to tamp the same. Sometimes I am off and hit 10-10.5 bars of pressure so I know I adjusted the grind too fine but sometimes when I grind too fine the coffee is softer and I am probably tamping with more.
Hmmm. This odd comment may reveal the source of your problem. Are you saying you are adjusting your grind in an attempt to hit exactly 9 bar? If so, this is definitely not the way to do it. In fact, it will result in exactly the gushers you described. You should not look at the brew gauge at all during your shots. It has no purpose except for calibration and will only mislead you. (In fact I don't even have one on my machine). You should simply be grinding fine enough to get 1.5 to 2 oz in 30 seconds....that's it. Forget about the pressure gauge.

Tamping has little effect on your flow. Flow rate is contolled by grind. Just concentrate on that for now.

If you use Illy coffee....I can't help you. :lol:
spazheadnewb

Re: Basic questions

Post by spazheadnewb »

Thanks Endo

I placed too much emphasis on trying to hit the 9 bar mark and did not pay as much attention to achieving a 1.5 oz to 2 oz double in 30 seconds hence some of those gushers.

As far as Illy is concerned I'm not a fan. Super expensive even when on sale $11 for 8 oz. $22 a pound! I have family in Italy and they don't even drink it. They have built a decent business though in the US.

Looking to try the counter culture Toscano blend next.
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