Villiage Idiot of Espresso needs S1 assistance!

General Questions and Comments that fit no specific category.
Post Reply
eelriverrose

Villiage Idiot of Espresso needs S1 assistance!

Post by eelriverrose »

I just got my first espresso machine, the S1 (I've been thinking about it for a l-o-o-o-ng time.) My dear husband plumbed it and got it set up and we both spent hours this afternoon in complete and utter confusion. Toto, I don't think we're in Kansas anymore! Franky, I don't get ANYTHING. For instance, when you are tamping, what the heck are you balancing that spout on the end of the portofilter on? Surely, you're not just holding it with one hand and applying 30 # of pressure with your other? I feel clueless about the most absolute basic elements of making espresso!

My Macap grinder isn't here yet, and I've been trying to grind my home roasted (probably totally wrong) beans very fine on a hand-held Zassenhaus, but the water seems to flow through too quickly, leaving a muddy mess in the portofilter; no dry puck for me!

Programming the 2 shot button was never achieved properly, because I never saw what looked like a real shot coming through, no matter how much or little water I used. It would start blonding (if I can call it that) and be watery in 12-15 seconds.

I can't figure out how you're supposed to get the hot basket out of the portofilter, or don't you need to clean that between shots? I couldn't manage to froth the millk (my previous methods have provided excellent microfroth, so I know what junk is). Are you really just supposed to flush the group and wipe down every day, not take apart?

This is only the first few of many questions. The problem is that I have never done anything but watch, in the vaguest possible way, a barista pull a shot. I don't even know anyone with a decent espresso machine. I'm starting to feel a sense of horror that I led my family down the primrose path to financial folly with this espresso thing. If I can't figure out even the most basic aspects of using the machine, I don't know if anyone else in my family will. Can any of you point me to a source for the most basic, "DUH!" type information, so I can start to redeem this extravagent purchase? Waaaaaah!
cappadoc

Post by cappadoc »

Susan,
First of all, relax! You and the La Spaz are gonna be just fine.
Now, when tamping, rest the PF (portafilter) on a flat surface, eg the countertop. Tamp with 30+ lbs pressure, that should solidify your puck. Next, consider removing the little spring in the PF handle which makes basket removal drastically easier. It's easy to remove with a screwdriver to pry up the edge. Forget programming the button for now and use the buttons to start and stop your shot until you get in the ballpark flow wise. That's a minor detail and is very easy to do later. See some of the other posts here in regards to milk frothing. It takes some practice as the S1 is a VERY powerful steamer.
MOST IMPORTANTLY, you DID NOT waste your money! After 24 hours I was pulling awesome shots on the S1 after upgrading from a *$ Barista.

LMK if you have other questions.

Jeff
eelriverrose

Post by eelriverrose »

Hi Jeff, I see you're from beautiful Grand Rapids (I mean it, not just being snippy)! I'm Detroit born and bred, and used to visit friends in GR. Wow, they had the greatest house -- all fabulous materials that we Californians only dream about -- brick, mahogany wainscotting, marble this and that, gorgeous hardwood floors, the works. Thanks for the tips and hand-holding. We did pop that spring-thing out of the baskets; I'm glad to hear that they can be used without it! Pushing the basket out of the bottom of a naked portofilter is one thing, but prying it out with your fingernails quite another ;-) ! I'm using what they call the "suitable" plastic tamper, as I'm still trying to get a La Forza handle to fit my Reg Barber 53 mm base.

I wonder if it is advisable or necessary to check the group pressure? That was one thing that seemed really odd, how quickly the water flowed through, as if it wasn't under pressure. When we ran a shot without the PF, it stilll seemed to just dribble like a drip coffee maker, not apparently under pressure. My husband thinks we could buy a pressure gauge to retrofit to the PF handle to check. I've got a really busy schedule the next few days/evenings, so I may not be able to do much playing with the S1 until Wednesday, but by then I at least will have acquired some commercially ground coffee, so that will take one variable out of the equation. Thanks again!

Susan
BillK

Post by BillK »

eelriverrose wrote: I've got a really busy schedule the next few days/evenings, so I may not be able to do much playing with the S1 until Wednesday, but by then I at least will have acquired some commercially ground coffee, so that will take one variable out of the equation. Thanks again!

Susan
Wow, from a dead start to an S1. Being a toe-in-the water type, I have always admired jumpers. Great jump, Susan! :-)

Actually, in terms of ease of use and ability to develop skills, a machine like the S1 *is* a great place to start, as it allows consistency with minimal operator skills compared to other types of machines. Evidence: I hurt my back a while back and have been unable to stand long enough to operate my machine. My wife, who knows nothing whatsoever about espresso machines or coffee, offered to make my espressos (did I mention that my wife is a wonderful, caring human being?). I yelled instructions out to her, she followed the instructions, and in about three shots she was able to make outstanding brews for me. I couldn't believe it! Once you get this machine set up and learn a few basics about grinding, loading the portafilter basket, and tamping, it is so easy to get good espresso.

I would not waste any money on pre-ground coffee, as it will surely be ground wrong for your machine and will just create added frustration. Wait for the Macap, so that you can adjust the grind as you go. Use the double spout and double basket. Grind enough coffee for one double shot, try it, grind another, etc. The goal is 2 oz. of fluid in 25 sec. Measure and time each shot. Catch the shot using clear, graduated shot glasses or a small measuring cup so that you can measure the shot volume in real time. Once you get into the ballpark, you can set the volumetric dosing feature, which has to be done with coffee in the basket - you need to have the resistance of the coffee puck in order for the volumetric dosing feature to get properly set.

Once you have the volumetric dosing set correctly, all you have to do to further zero-in on the correct grind is to grind and time the shot, then re-grind until you hit about 25 seconds.

Your new grinder is key to ending your frustration and allowing you to move forward. It is virtually impossible to get your machine set up and producing good shots w/o a decent grinder that you can adjust from shot to shot.

I would add that measuring everything is very important, and you should get used to doing it early on. Quality espresso is a function of consistency, and measuring - not guessing or estimating - is key to consistency. Once I have the volumetric dosing set up to my preference, I am assured of near-perfect consistency in shot volume and I don't have to worry about that item. Then, for each and every shot, I weigh the grounds with a postal scale and I time the shot with a timer - typically, I want 18 grams of grounds and 25 seconds. The only variables I have to concern myself with, as far as my technique is concerned, are consistency in distribution and tamping of the grounds, and the bottomless portafilter gives good feedback on how well I am doing on these two items.
eelriverrose

Post by eelriverrose »

Hi Bill, thanks for the useful insights. My husband is a guitar-maker, and a fellow luthier that came to that profession by way of engineering once said that humans would still be crawling around with their knuckles on the ground if they hadn't learned to measure! I think our experiment today with the Zassenhaus convinced my DH that the only way to get decent espresso from an excellent machine is to have the right grinder (thereby justifying that addiional expense). By the way, you obviously must deserve a kind and caring wife; they don't just spring out of the ground like mushrooms after the rain! Gotta get some of those glass shot glasses. I rummaged around and found a little stainless cup with a ducky on it (our youngest is now 13) that fit under the spout, but had no idea what 2 oz. looks like in it. Muchas gracias! It's true, I jumped, but my family was ready to push me. I almost bought an Andrea last Christmas, then stalled when the price went up. This Christmas I actually ordered one, then got upgrade fever a day later! Chris accomodated me and sent out the S1. With a little help from my friends, I know I'll be smiling like the Cheshire cat soon.

Susan
HooHaw

Post by HooHaw »

Hi Susan! Just like you my first espresso machine is the S1.

You could hold the PF at the edge of the counter and tamp. Or you could use a bottomless (naked) PF. Or you could remove the PF retention clip, buy several baskets and tamp with the basket out of the PF.

The PF gauge would be a good idea either the one Chris coffee sells or you could put one together. My S1 was somewhere north of 10 BAR when I first measured it.
eelriverrose

Post by eelriverrose »

Further experiments with a bag of professionally ground coffee (since I still don't have my grinder) have continued to be disappointing. I can't vouch for the quality of the coffee (though it was locally roasted), but the resulting "espresso" is bitter and without body. I'm not convinced my group pressure is appropriate, since we still get a pour in under 15 seconds. My husband ordered a stock pressure gauge and thinks he can get fittings to attach it to the PF, but since it's under $10, I'm not sure it's appropriate (all the espresso websites list a gauge for this purpose at twice that amount).

HH, I'm surprised to hear that your machine was received above 10 bar. I just called Chris Coffee and talked with the tech guy. He said they bench-test each machine and try to send them out at 10. He thinks that the ground coffee was not fine enough; that variable can be adjusted once I get my Macap. (It irks to have spent $12 for a pound of crummy coffee -- I MUCH prefer my own home-roasted beans from Sweet Marias -- that isn't even ground properly!) It's comforting, when spending a small fortune, to have the feeling that my questions are welcomed by the dealer. I've got nothing but respect and gratitude for the folks at Chris Coffee.

And to all of you who have offered some advice and support (I don't quite see the right emoticon to express myself) -- thanks!
Barry

Post by Barry »

If your pour it still taking less than 15 seconds, your grind is almost certainly still not fine enough. I will caution you about going over board when you get your MACAP. It will be just as easy to choke the S1 with to fine a grind resulting in a 30 second + pour.
User avatar
admin
Site Admin
Posts: 170
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 11:48 pm
Location: Krakow

Post by admin »

eelriverrose wrote:the resulting "espresso" is bitter and without body.
Susan, welcome to the "club"!

All other variables being accounted for, bitter usually means the water is too hot. Fortunately, this is one of the easier variables to try with the S1. What temperature setting are you using?

On the other hand, thin might indicate channeling. Assuming you are still using the POS tamper than comes with the S1, poor tamping could mean that you are getting channeling down the sides of the puck. When this happens you don't see the normal tell tale channeling signs of holes in the puck. I have actually gotten excellent tamping results with the POS tamper using the Staub four quadrant tamp approach. Are you familiar with that?

I think you said that you were using a Zassenhaus manual grinder. That should be adequate to get a good enough grind for the S1. With the proper tamp, coffee grounds about the sign of salt grains should be fine enough for a 25 second pour. It actually possible that the grounds are aleady too fine and that, in combination with poor tamping, is causing your problems due to channeling.
S1 Cafe Admin
http://www.s1cafe.com
BillK

Post by BillK »

eelriverrose wrote:(It irks to have spent $12 for a pound of crummy coffee --
Ahem... Susan, I told you that you would be wasting your money with commercially-ground beans. People who won't listen shouldn't be irked, right? :-) Your problem is not water pressure, either. Your problem is grind. You have to understand that proper grind is crucial. And it is unique to your setup, meaning that pre-ground beans will not do it for you. Proper grind varies according to the age and roast level and variety of beans you are using, as well as things like what espresso machine you have, the weather conditions, the number of dirty dishes on your counter, and other factors that nobody really understands. (OK, OK, so I was kidding about the dirty dishes. I hope.) It is the kind of thing where you will hit the sweet spot on your grind, and it may be slightly off in the next shot, the next hour, or the next day. As an indication of how touchy the grind setting is: I normally have several different types of roasted beans in jars on my counter at the same time. I have tape on the jars and I write on the the tape what the grind setting was for the previous shot or, if it was bad, what setting I want for my next shot. Sometimes, especially with different single-origin beans, every jar has a slightly different number on it. Your problem is grind.

The Macap will solve your immediate problem once it arrives. As Barry indicated, you can easily go to the other extreme with this kind of grinder, so you have to find the sweetspot through trial and error.

Once you get squared-away on grind, your next problems are likely to occur due to lack of experience in dosing, distribution and tamping. These are the key factors that affect the nature of the coffee puck. If you don't get a reasonable degree of consistency with them, they will interact with grind setting and cause confusion. You might want search the alt.coffee site with these keywords in order to get some background. If you don't know about alt.coffee, here is an easy way to access the site:

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.coff ... =&ie=UTF-8

Per my previous note, there are two things I would suggest that you get in order to help out with D,D,T. First, there is the clear glass that will allow you to measure 2 oz on-the-fly. If you don't have calibrated shot glasses, just find a shallow drinking glass that will fit under the portafilter, pour two oz of liquid in it, and put a mark on the glass. If your glass is too tall, remove the grating that covers the drip tray to get more headroom. The other thing is an electronic postage scale from Staples (thirty bucks).

Good espresso is hard, and you have to be prepared for some frustration at first. After a while, you will know the basics and it will get to be second nature and fun. Hang in there.
eelriverrose

Post by eelriverrose »

Just a few minutes before you nailed me with your last post, Bill, I was rereading this thread, saw your original comment about beans, and thought the same thing! It can't be helped. When we first met, my husband told me he was allergic to cats (we've since had seven of them), and I responded -- without even stopping to think about what I was saying -- that I was allergic to being told what to do! That was 20 years ago. Now, maybe in 20 more years....?! Well, I'm sure I can find someone who won't mind finely ground, fairly fresh (albeit mediocre IMHO) coffee if donated to them, but you're absolutely right.

As far as dishes go, the S1 is currently squeezing into the space for my clean dish drainrack, so that could be a factor, along with the lunar cycles.

The temp arrived set at 95 and I lowered it to 94. I'm going to try 93, research the 4-quadrant tamp, and am unwrapping a bottomless portofilter to try tomorrow. I did believe before in the importance of grind, but now I really "get it." It's not just the difference between a great shot and a good shot It's more like the difference between a potential God Shot and "Shoot the barista!"

Susan
BillK

Post by BillK »

My dominant miss has always been of the kind where I would show up in class at the normal time and wonder where the heck everybody else was, suddenly remembering that this was the day of the field trip. I think this is all controlled by the same gene, so believe me, I know the problem.

Normally a too-fast extraction leads to sour, which is easy to confuse with bitter when things get nasty. If so, the off taste will get worse as you lower the temperature. I have had good luck with 95-96-97, but I am not sure that all S1's are calibrated quite the same.
daerider

Post by daerider »

Susan,
I'd like to chime in here. Although the tamp is a very important element of a great shot, even distribution of the proper grind for your particular bean is just as critical! Voids and fissues created by poor distribution techniques will inevitably lead to blond gushers and sink shots no matter how consistent your tamping technique is. It will take quite some experimentation on your part to really understand the relationship between the S1 at its current pressure delivery of 10bar, MCAP grinder, and coffee beans of choice. I think I went through about 25 lbs. of my favorite local roast before I really dialed in my distribution and tamp technique to where I could start to experiment with the temperature settings to fine tune the flavor profile of my coffee bean.

PS - I put together a static portafilter mouted pressure gauge from parts sourced from home depot for about $12.00 and it works just fine. When I tested my S1 that I purchased from Chris Coffee I got a static reading of 10bar which equates to ~9.5bar while pulling a shot. I have since lowered my static pressure to a reading of 9bar and my shot quality and consistency greatly improved.

regards,
Damon
eelriverrose

Post by eelriverrose »

Hi Damon, thanks for chiming in. As soon as I can find some connector parts, we'll have a way to measure pressure and may consider adjusting it slightly, like you did. You mention distribtion: I've just been more or less piling some ground coffee in the basket with the measuring spoon that came with the S1 and tamping. Once I get the Macap (which should literally be any minute), I will see how the doser performs that function. What is your method of distribution?

How I wish I had a good local roaster! I've ordered a couple of pounds of Sweet Maria's monkey blend for espresso, but figured I'd work out my own blends of beans typically used for espresso, such as Brazil, Yemen, Sumatra, Sulawesi, Ethiopian, Guatemalen. That in itself sounds crazy to me, the more I understand that every element can wreak potential havoc in the cup, but I've gotten spoiled by freshly roasted beans and can't go back.

I'll be in San Diego in March visiting my mother and should bring some good coffee back with me. What is your favorite?
earache

Post by earache »

eelriverrose,

We're neighbors of sorts... I'm just south of you in Windsor. Welcome to the S1 club. I just joined myself after upgrading from a Livia. I've also have a Macap M4.

Some dosing/distribution/Macap tricks I've used. Set your M4 to dose the smallest amount possible, thereby allowing you to better control distribution better by rotating the PF as you dose. I also give the PF a few little downward taps on the PF rest as I dose. Ditch the M4's hopper and only scoop in the amount of beans you need, keep the rest in an airtight container. Buy a cheap 58mm tamper and use it to push down the beans while you grind. Buy a small brush to clean out the chute after you grind, then give the grinder another pulse and clean out the chute again.

As for local coffee beans. Try Taylor Maid in Sebastopol - Espresso a go-go, and their Ethiopian beans make for excellent espresso. Also try Flying Goat in Healdsburg and SR - Espresso Ticino and Espresso Vesuvio. Peet's Espresso Forte is also decent.

Have fun. The S1 and Macap are great!

Eric
eelriverrose

Post by eelriverrose »

Eric, thanks for the tips and coffee recommendations. I'm two hours from Santa Rosa and don't get down there very often, even more rarely to Sebastopol, but I usually stop at the Flying Goat en route to points south for R&R anyway, so I should try their beans. I'll have to try Ticino or Vesuvio, as I'm heading to Rohnert Park tomorrow. That should take the roast factor out of the mix for a few days. I'm tickled at what a friendly crowd the S1 owners are. Staying dry? We're on bedrock and in good shape above the Eel River, but wow, our road to town was trashed (and impassable) by those storms at years' end. I heard that the Russian River did some damage down your way.

Susan
daerider

Post by daerider »

eelriverrose wrote:Hi Damon, thanks for chiming in. As soon as I can find some connector parts, we'll have a way to measure pressure and may consider adjusting it slightly, like you did. You mention distribtion: I've just been more or less piling some ground coffee in the basket with the measuring spoon that came with the S1 and tamping. Once I get the Macap (which should literally be any minute), I will see how the doser performs that function. What is your method of distribution?

How I wish I had a good local roaster! I've ordered a couple of pounds of Sweet Maria's monkey blend for espresso, but figured I'd work out my own blends of beans typically used for espresso, such as Brazil, Yemen, Sumatra, Sulawesi, Ethiopian, Guatemalen. That in itself sounds crazy to me, the more I understand that every element can wreak potential havoc in the cup, but I've gotten spoiled by freshly roasted beans and can't go back.

I'll be in San Diego in March visiting my mother and should bring some good coffee back with me. What is your favorite?
Susan,
I use a distribution technique very similar to what earache described, but have modified it in the following manner. I have a Mazzer Major that does not have a hopper on it and I do not keep any grounds in the doser chamber. When I'm ready to grind my beans, I fill up the chamber where the hopper normally sits and place a 58mm SS tamper on top to keep the beans contained while grinding. As soon as I turn on the grinder, I start whacking away on the doser lever and rotating the portafilter underneath the doser to get a nice even distribution of grounds in the filter. I fill the filter to the top and give it a couple of light raps on the grinder portafilter support and fill the basket until it is overflowing. At this point I use the Stockfleths move (http://gauperaa.coffeed.com/videos/stockflethsmove.wmv) to finish off the top which gives me about 18g in the filter basket. I tamp once to about 30lbs. and polish the top with no pressure on the tamper. This method has been giving me very consistent results.

Let me know when your in San Diego and I will point you in the direction of some very respectable local roasts from Safari coffee and Cafe Moto.
eelriverrose

Post by eelriverrose »

Hi -- I got my Macap and have been experimenting with a bag of Ticino from Flying Goat. My husband -- with tech support from Chris Coffee -- raised the pump pressure to 9.1 up from 8.2. I have kept the temperature at 94, and am getting pours more in line time-wise, but vile tasting nonetheless. One of my kids took a sip and said "Mom, your old French Press coffee was much, MUCH better." I'm inclined to agree with him. (Plus it was much, MUCH easier to clean up after it, and it was several thousand dollars cheaper.) I expected a learning curve, but didn't think it would be this flat! I can't download the Stockfleths move video due to my pitiably slow dial-up connection out here, so haven't been able to try that. I assumed my grind, my pressure, my distribution and tamp are more or less in the ballpark, so I'm not sure why the resultant espresso is so -- for want of a better word -- evil. It almost makes me want to go have a cup of tea, just to cheer myself up. Is it really possible to make such consistently bad espresso with good beans and $2,200 worth of equipment?

By the way, people have mentioned double-shot, and 2 oz/25 second pours in the same breath. I thought the 2 oz shot was a single. If you have a double, wouldn't it be 3-4 oz, and take something longer than 25 seconds in the ideal?

Susan
BillK

Post by BillK »

Hi Susan,

A double shot is, nominally, 2 oz. of brew made with 14 grams of ground coffee, done in 25 seconds. The S1 double basket holds about 17-18 grams, so most people would consider an S1 nominal double shot to be 2 oz. using 17-18 grams, in 25 seconds. Sounds as though you are off by a factor of two. If so, it is a problem.

I have had the Flying Goat Ticino, and it is a good product and is not your problem as long as it is reasonably fresh.

I suggest that you read up on how to set the volumetric dosing. Then set the double cup button so that you get two oz of liquid, measured to the middle of the crema; you must do this with a puck of coffee in the basket, not an empty portafilter. Once you have done this, you will have exactly two oz. of brew every time you hit the double shot button, hence removing one big variable from the equation.

Then, adjust your grind so that you get your double shot of brew in 25 seconds. Once you get to this point, I think you will have much better flavor.

I have found that if I remove the wire retention spring from the portafilter so that the basket easily comes out I have better luck in dosing etc. I dose into the basket sans portafilter handle, weigh the basket and coffee - 27 gm for the basket and 18 gm for the coffee - and tamp on the counter top. I then put the basket into the portafilter handle and proceed. I get good repeatibility this way.

Good luck!
HooHaw

Post by HooHaw »

Biil, with 18g of grind is the coffee surface just below the basket ridge?
BillK

Post by BillK »

HooHaw wrote:Biil, with 18g of grind is the coffee surface just below the basket ridge?
With my equipment, the surface looks to be just at the top of the ridge. The puck gets disturbed by the dispersion head mounting screw; I ignore this, and it doesn't seem to make much diffference.
daerider

Post by daerider »

Bill,
have you tried grinding down that bolt? I ground away about half the thickness of the bolt head and now the top of the puck is unmarred with ~18g of coffee in the filter. I have not noticed any significant change in my extractions but its nice to know that one more variable is taken out of the equation.
NewEnglandCliff

Post by NewEnglandCliff »

Susan, yes you can consistently make bad espresso with great coffee and an expensive machine. Generally, the pricier you get, the more you need to learn as a Barista. All of the information you need has been covered in great detail at www.coffeegeek.com, and especially at www.home-barista.com. Instead of asking all of the same questions here I suggest you go there and start searching. You'll get everything answered just by reading the existing posts. It'll take a little time, but some very knowledgable people have gone to great length to post everything you'll need. They've even published entire articles covering exactly what you're looking for. Eventually you'll be very happy with your espresso.
User avatar
chas
Vivaldi Dreamer
Posts: 3044
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 11:52 pm
Location: Central Maryland
Contact:

Post by chas »

Susan, excellent advice from Cliff. Before getting our S1's most of us had cut our chops figuring out how to get drinkable espresso from the likes of Silvias and Isomacs, so we hit the ground running when we got our S1s.

In your case you said that the S1 is your first machine. So you still have to go through the generic learning curve that we had already been through when we got our S1s. Hang in there, keep reading, keep asking questions, and keep practicing, you'll get there.
Chas
LM GS/3 & LaSpaziale Dream v 1.25 (US 120V)
Mazzer Kony E, Customized Rocky
Hottop P/B
eelriverrose

Post by eelriverrose »

Thanks for the clarification about grams/shot. I'll also go back to coffeegeek and homebarista and try to take in more of the great info presented there. I did read a lot of it and I thought I was comprehending points as I read posts and articles, but I guess I really am one of those people who goes blind with panic when confronted with a manual, and has to do their learning hands-on.

The machine is working again, thanks to my resourceful and intrepid husband and afterhours weekend help from Chris. The water boiler was leaking terrifically and not functioning properly. Greg took things apart (makes me shiver just to think about it), and extracted a tiny brass ring sort of scrap from places where no such detritus should be. ??!!?? Those Italians sure have a sense of humor. I hope that thing didn't belong somewhere else, but is looks rather like an artifact of manufacture.

After three weeks, it didn't really seem fair for the machine to be on its back with its legs in the air. I'm lucky my DH is handy and willing. Although, when confronted with the guts of the machine, he said "I'll bet there are a lot of guys who would be really eager to get in here and mess around." You know who you are....!

Susan
User avatar
chas
Vivaldi Dreamer
Posts: 3044
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 11:52 pm
Location: Central Maryland
Contact:

Post by chas »

Susan, based on the number of others that have had the same thing happen, I'd say at least 15% of all owners have this happen to them soon after purchase. Chris says that LaSpaziale blames their suppliers for not cleaning out their parts after manufacture, but to me it seems like Laspaziale ought to be sure their parts are flushed out before and after assembly.
Chas
LM GS/3 & LaSpaziale Dream v 1.25 (US 120V)
Mazzer Kony E, Customized Rocky
Hottop P/B
eelriverrose

Post by eelriverrose »

I agree!

By the way, I just got a steam wand adaptor from Chris Coffee, and it seems like the O-ring seating it to the wand is not big enough. When you tighten it down, it is metal-to-metal and leaks from that spot. Did you experience that? I have a Gold Pro 2-hole tip I wanted to use and I'm sure it's not leaking from that spot, but the adaptor/wand.

Lastly, I feel like Alice in Wonderland, tracking down the White Rabbit. I have read so many conflicting opinions about shot measurement that I am interested in what you think. I have read opinions ranging from a single shot being 7-8 grams of coffee to 14 grams; a double being 16-20. No way could I fit 14 grams of coffee in my single basket, so I'm confused about that. Also, "double" shots have ranged from 2 oz. pours in 25-27 seconds, to 3-1/2 to 4 oz. pours! I'm thoroughly confused. One suggests that a "double" merely has double the concentration of coffee, the other that it is also double the volume of water, i.e. a true doubling of what a single is. Thanks for any insights, and continued support.
User avatar
chas
Vivaldi Dreamer
Posts: 3044
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 11:52 pm
Location: Central Maryland
Contact:

Post by chas »

If you're talking about the smaller yellow gasket on the end that screws into the steam wand tube, it goes up into the tube on mine but it seats just fine and doesn't leak a bit.

A single shot is .75-1.0oz of liquid from 7-8g of coffee. A double shot is 1.5-2oz of liquid from 14-16g of coffee.

Those of us with a triple basket use 18-20g of coffee but still just 2oz of liquid, not 3oz. So our triples are actually more like a double ristretto.
Chas
LM GS/3 & LaSpaziale Dream v 1.25 (US 120V)
Mazzer Kony E, Customized Rocky
Hottop P/B
daerider

Post by daerider »

Susan,
I typically do not pull singles, but my doubles are ~17g of coffee stuffed into a double basket and extracted with 1.5oz of water in approx 25sec.
eelriverrose

Post by eelriverrose »

Another factoid that has been confusing is: when do you start counting that 25 seconds? In some sources, it says from the beginning of the dripping espresso, but just today I was going over the S1 review in homebarista.com and he starts counting at the beginning of the shot, once you press a button -- he mentions it taking about five seconds for the espresso to appear and going another 20 after that!
User avatar
chas
Vivaldi Dreamer
Posts: 3044
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 11:52 pm
Location: Central Maryland
Contact:

Post by chas »

Opinions differ. I really can't tell much difference between those 5 seconds, however. But I personally start measuring from the instant I press the button. I have a magnetic timer I turn on at the same time to measure shot time. As you can see the timer serves al alternate purpose - to hide that ugly large S1 decal 8)

Image
Chas
LM GS/3 & LaSpaziale Dream v 1.25 (US 120V)
Mazzer Kony E, Customized Rocky
Hottop P/B
eelriverrose

Post by eelriverrose »

Aha! I'm with you on that goofy S1 decal. When my husband had The Beast pulled away from the wall, fishing out that little Italian good-luck token from the boiler valve, I saw the classy "La Spaziale" on the shiny back and thought: now why couldn't they have put that on the front?!

Counting from button press could definitely change my opinion about my shots. I may have been leaving them going too long, effectively ruining nice shots. I just tried with a single, cutting it off earlier and it was much, much better and way more crema, proportionately.

P.S. In your opinion, is it better to pull a shot directly into the cup/glass you intend to imbibe it out of, rather than little SS shot pitchers, or doesn't it matter? I always feel bad disturbing it. I wonder if it affects the flavor (I'm still in cappaccino-land.) Susan
TruthBrew

Post by TruthBrew »

I always pull directly into the drinking vessel, especially if you are drinking straight... less heat loss and no disruption of the crema. I found some great little stainless steel, double walled espresso cups (2oz) at Ikea for cheap.
User avatar
chas
Vivaldi Dreamer
Posts: 3044
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 11:52 pm
Location: Central Maryland
Contact:

Post by chas »

Me,too. When not using a bottomless PF, I use one with the spout removed and then just have the coffee dispense right into a cup I've just removed from the warming tray. I also keep a clean dish towel over the cups on the warming tray.

They are almost too hot to touch when you use a towel. That had initially made me nervous that I was causing the innerds to get too hot and possibly reduce the life of the S1. However, I took a bunch of temp measurements inside the S1 with the towel on and off and found that the towel only increased the temp inside 1-2F but the cups are probably 20F warmer.
Chas
LM GS/3 & LaSpaziale Dream v 1.25 (US 120V)
Mazzer Kony E, Customized Rocky
Hottop P/B
TruthBrew

Post by TruthBrew »

Chas wrote:Me,too. When not using a bottomless PF, I use one with the spout removed and then just have the coffee dispense right into a cup I've just removed from the warming tray.
Just a little clarification Chas....

What do you do differently between using a bottomless PF vs a regular spouted PF? I can catch the runnings into the same single cup (Ikea SS) no matter what PF I use. It's plenty wide enough to catch for the bottomless and just wide enough to catch both streams on the double-spout.

Also now use the towel on warmer trick, works great in my daily use and I just remove it (for looks) when guests come over.
User avatar
chas
Vivaldi Dreamer
Posts: 3044
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 11:52 pm
Location: Central Maryland
Contact:

Post by chas »

TruthBrew wrote:
Just a little clarification Chas....

What do you do differently between using a bottomless PF vs a regular spouted PF?
The only thing I do differently when I use the bottomless PF is stand back so that, if I did a bad tamp, it doesn't squirt me in the eye
Chas
LM GS/3 & LaSpaziale Dream v 1.25 (US 120V)
Mazzer Kony E, Customized Rocky
Hottop P/B
TruthBrew

Post by TruthBrew »

Ditto here. 8)
eelriverrose

Post by eelriverrose »

Sometimes I wonder if I spent $59 for my bottomless portofilter for naught. I am not really sure that channeling is a problem for me; I feel like the S1 is really not prone to that. It's hard to asess what I can learn from using the naked portofilter that justifes the expense. What are the reasons that you all like them? I have to admit, I haven't experimented with them much, but I'd need more compelling reasons, I guess. (I suppose one is that it accepts Lino's triple baskets.) Susan
User avatar
chas
Vivaldi Dreamer
Posts: 3044
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 11:52 pm
Location: Central Maryland
Contact:

Post by chas »

I think a bottomless PF can help validate and improve your technique, but after using it occasionally to do this, I always go back to the regular PF. There are claims that the coffee is better because the trip around the spout in a std PF can break down the crema. I remove the spout from my std PF anyway which I'm sure nets pretty close the same result.

BTW: The triple basket fits my std PF just fine. You don't need a bottomless PF to use them.
Chas
LM GS/3 & LaSpaziale Dream v 1.25 (US 120V)
Mazzer Kony E, Customized Rocky
Hottop P/B
TruthBrew

Post by TruthBrew »

Geez, I have more problems with channeling than most then.... seems I more often then not have little pinhole shooters. I'm real careful to watch my distribution and tamping, sometimes I'm on and other times for not real reason it fails.
User avatar
admin
Site Admin
Posts: 170
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 11:48 pm
Location: Krakow

Post by admin »

That's another reason to switch back to the std PF. Once you've tried everything with the bottomless and you still get some occasional squirts, why bother? You're just making a mess of the counter and whatever is around the S1!

In my case my wife likes to leave her mail in a pile right next to the S1. When I use the bottomless sooner or later I squirt coffee all over her mail!
S1 Cafe Admin
http://www.s1cafe.com
Post Reply

Return to “General Q&A”