1/4" or 3/8" water line?

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sraike

1/4" or 3/8" water line?

Post by sraike »

Hi all, my new S1 should be here by Friday and I want to get a head start on the plumbing. I d/l'd the owner's manual and it didn't say anything about water supply requirement or hookup. I found a post on this forum that said Chris recommends 3/8" inch tubing. I'd rather use 1/4" if possible as I have filtered water at the sink about 20 feet away that uses a 1/4" line. Household water is already softened. I do plan to use a regulator as well as pressure here is very high.

My question is, are any of you folks successfully running a 1/4" water line? And if so, about how long is your 1/4" line?

Thanks,
Stu
ishcoco

Re: 1/4" or 3/8" water line?

Post by ishcoco »

sraike wrote:Hi all, my new S1 should be here by Friday and I want to get a head start on the plumbing. I d/l'd the owner's manual and it didn't say anything about water supply requirement or hookup. I found a post on this forum that said Chris recommends 3/8" inch tubing. I'd rather use 1/4" if possible as I have filtered water at the sink about 20 feet away that uses a 1/4" line. Household water is already softened. I do plan to use a regulator as well as pressure here is very high.

My question is, are any of you folks successfully running a 1/4" water line? And if so, about how long is your 1/4" line?

Thanks,
Stu
I spoke to Chris directly when I bought mine a few months ago. The machine is supposed to have 3/8" water lines. He told me that a 1/4" line would probably be fine, but since I was installing the lines from scratch, why skimp? You'd probably be OK with 1/4". If you are buying it from Chris, or at least the plumbing parts, ask for Roger in service, and trust what he says. Good luck!
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Post by admin »

The safest option would be to get a 1/4" to 3/8" adapter and use the 3/8" line. However, before I bought the S1 I had a Tea and I used the 1/4" line. So when I got the S1 with the 3/8" line, I immediately fired up the S1 and didn't get around to installing the 3/8" line for several days. It seemed to work fine.

ON the other hand, if the 1/4' line can't provide enough water to feed the rotary pump, you will start to hear cavitation noise. When I bought my S1 it was one of the old models that was really noisy before LaSpaz redesigned the motor mounts. So if I was getting any cavitation noise it's doubtful I would have heard it over the other racket.

In your case, if there is an issue, it should be obvious since the new units with the upgraded motor mounts should be dead quiet. If you only hear a slight hum when the pump is running your are probably OK.
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sraike

Post by sraike »

admin wrote:The safest option would be to get a 1/4" to 3/8" adapter and use the 3/8" line. However, before I bought the S1 I had a Tea and I used the 1/4" line. So when I got the S1 with the 3/8" line, I immediately fired up the S1 and didn't get around to installing the 3/8" line for several days. It seemed to work fine.

ON the other hand, if the 1/4' line can't provide enough water to feed the rotary pump, you will start to hear cavitation noise. When I bought my S1 it was one of the old models that was really noisy before LaSpaz redesigned the motor mounts. So if I was getting any cavitation noise it's doubtful I would have heard it over the other racket.

In your case, if there is an issue, it should be obvious since the new units with the upgraded motor mounts should be dead quiet. If you only hear a slight hum when the pump is running your are probably OK.
Thanks folks! My new S1 arrived yesterday and will hook it up this weekend. I'm going to try 1 /4" line first since that is what comes out of my filter assembly. Good point on the cavitation and will certainly listen for such. The installation manual says the S1 can handle up to 87 psi without being regulated so since my pressure is less than that I'll go without the regulator to help with the flow. Will post the outcome.

Stu
sraike

Post by sraike »

Plumbed the new S1 today. Used 1/4" copper pipe from softened/filtered source about 20 feet away. No regulator was used and only a shut off valve is inline from where it tee's off the source. Observed flow as I rinsed out the line before use and it was way more than would ever come out of the machine at any given time.

No cavitation noise from the pump and was surprised how quiet it is compared to Silvia. So I'm thinking the 1/4" line is ok and it will save me from having another filter.

Still tweaking to get my perfect shot but getting close. The steam is really impressive. I'm very happy so far.

Stu
GentleGiant

Post by GentleGiant »

I've had good results feeding my S1 through 1/4" plastic line from a Flo-jet pump. There's a total of ~10 feet of tubing.

With a Flo-jet I'd consider it essential to use a pressure acculmulator (pressurized water resevoir), otherwise the pump cycles on and off really rapidly.
TruthBrew

Post by TruthBrew »

GentleGiant, just curious on why are you using 1/4" line if you have a FloJet? The flojet is actually a 3/8" pump that has a 1/4" adapter on it, so in effect, you are taking a 3/8" device, converting down to 1/4" then back up to 3/8" to the machine. Perhaps that is part of the reason why yours turns [turned] off and on so rapidly? Mine does turn off and on, but it's not too rapid or often.

Sometime soon I am going to write up a short article/FAQ on the FloJet (especially in regards to the S1) as when I first received it I had to do quite a bit of searching to find this information out. I will plan on referencing your recommendation for a pressure accumulator though, as I do agree it's better than a direct hookup.
cappadoc

pressure accumulator

Post by cappadoc »

My machine has a shurflo pressure tank between the Flojet and pump. It has made the machine MUCH quieter and dramatically reduces the water hammer effect.

Jeff
daerider

Re: pressure accumulator

Post by daerider »

cappadoc wrote:My machine has a shurflo pressure tank between the Flojet and pump. It has made the machine MUCH quieter and dramatically reduces the water hammer effect.

Jeff
Jeff,
I'm having major issues with this hammer effect from my flojet to the point that I have just turned off the pump altogether. I would love to get ride of the pulsing from the flowjet, what size shurflo whould you recomend for 3/8" lines?

Thanks,
Damon
cappadoc

Post by cappadoc »

I have a small 24 oz (I think) accumulator that I bought at a boat supply store. They are usually available there or at an RV supply store. If you live near a West Marine store they carry them there. About $40. Best money I ever spent. I wanted to rip the pump out before I got it, too. It's got 1/2" ports so a 1/2" MPT to 3/8" hose barb connector (2 of them, actually) worked perfectly and took all of 10 minutes to assemble.


Jeff
daerider

Post by daerider »

cappadoc wrote:I have a small 24 oz (I think) accumulator that I bought at a boat supply store. They are usually available there or at an RV supply store. If you live near a West Marine store they carry them there. About $40. Best money I ever spent. I wanted to rip the pump out before I got it, too. It's got 1/2" ports so a 1/2" MPT to 3/8" hose barb connector (2 of them, actually) worked perfectly and took all of 10 minutes to assemble.


Jeff
Thanks Jeff,
I stop by my local west marine store and picked up a shurflow accumulator tank for about 42.00 with tax. What a difference! The surging and hammer effect are completely gone, and best of all, the flow jet only needs to re-fill the accumulator every third shot or so with flushing. I would recommend this addition to anyone who is using a flojet for water delivery.

Thanks again,
Damon
daerider

Post by daerider »

TruthBrew wrote:GentleGiant, just curious on why are you using 1/4" line if you have a FloJet? The flojet is actually a 3/8" pump that has a 1/4" adapter on it, so in effect, you are taking a 3/8" device, converting down to 1/4" then back up to 3/8" to the machine. Perhaps that is part of the reason why yours turns [turned] off and on so rapidly? Mine does turn off and on, but it's not too rapid or often.

Sometime soon I am going to write up a short article/FAQ on the FloJet (especially in regards to the S1) as when I first received it I had to do quite a bit of searching to find this information out. I will plan on referencing your recommendation for a pressure accumulator though, as I do agree it's better than a direct hookup.
How do you remove the 1/4" adapter from the flojet? I have tried to gentle pry it out, but I am concerned that I will damage the pump.

v/r,
Damon
TruthBrew

Post by TruthBrew »

daerider,

From the thread listed below:

"The Flojet outlet is a Quick-Disconnect (QD) and it has a 1/4-inch adapter stuck into a 3/8-inch QD so all you have to do is remove the plastic part that has the red plug in it by pressing on the outer ring and then pulling the piece out"

Check out the this thread for full details.
http://www.home-barista.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=479

That should describe it adequetely and it has a photo.
daerider

Post by daerider »

Truth,
Thanks for the link with the photo, I immediately see the error of my ways. I was trying to pry out the whole connector, not just the 1/4" reducer. What a disaster that would have been! It's all dialed in now at 3/8" and works like a dream with the shurflo accumulator tank.
NewEnglandCliff

Post by NewEnglandCliff »

Is anybody with an accumulator getting leaking from the expansion valve (Jeff, got your response at HB, thanks)?
MrMonkey

Post by MrMonkey »

I'm a little confused about the 1/4" or 3/8" supply line issue.

The steel braid covered line supplied by Chris's Coffee for the final connection to the S1 appears to have an inside diameter about the same as a 1/4" line. Certainly smaller than a 3/8" line. Or, is that just the connectors on the line? In any case, I would think that the smallest size diameter opening in all lines leading to the machine would be the limiting factor (assuming sufficient pressure). So, it seems like everything ends up going through a 1/4" line size opening if you use the line supplied by Chris.

What am I failing to understand?
sraike

Post by sraike »

MrMonkey wrote:I'm a little confused about the 1/4" or 3/8" supply line issue.

The steel braid covered line supplied by Chris's Coffee for the final connection to the S1 appears to have an inside diameter about the same as a 1/4" line. Certainly smaller than a 3/8" line. Or, is that just the connectors on the line? In any case, I would think that the smallest size diameter opening in all lines leading to the machine would be the limiting factor (assuming sufficient pressure). So, it seems like everything ends up going through a 1/4" line size opening if you use the line supplied by Chris.

What am I failing to understand?
I think you understand it quite well. I have my S1 on an unregulated 1/4" copper line and it works fine.

Stu
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