New version of the S1 Vivaldi II (SSR, no plastic cup rail)

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Louis

New version of the S1 Vivaldi II (SSR, no plastic cup rail)

Post by Louis »

Hi,

I've been lucky to get one of the first new S1 Vivaldi II this week.

I thought it would be interesting for future buyers (and actual ones) to know what has changed with this latest iteration.

1. The TRIACs with their fan are now gone and have been replaced by a single dual use Solid State Relay (SSR). Both boilers are driven by the SSR. It is fixed to the side frame rather than the bottom. The four small wires at the front are the control signals, coming from the control box. The four bigger wires at the back go the the brew boiler heater and the steam boiler heater. From what I understand, the original 240V version of the S1 didn't require a fan to cool the TRIACs but the switch to 120V made one mandatory when the steam boiler was heating. The SSR, replacing the TRIACS, makes the machine completely silent. I tried to get a good angle to show the part number but it can't be done without pulling the cables off the SSR, something I didn't do.
Close-up of the single dual-use SSR, which controls both heaters.
Close-up of the single dual-use SSR, which controls both heaters.
IMG_2620.jpg (110.33 KiB) Viewed 13226 times
2. The steam boiler and brew boilers are no longer nickel plated. The steam boiler is bare copper with brass ends. The front part of the brew boiler appear to be nickel plated (or may be stainless), while the back is bare copper, with the brass cap.
Rear view of the non plated copper boilers with brass ends.
Rear view of the non plated copper boilers with brass ends.
IMG_2618.jpg (186.69 KiB) Viewed 13226 times
Top view of the boilers.
Top view of the boilers.
IMG_2621.jpg (165.73 KiB) Viewed 13226 times
3. The plastic cup rail has been removed and the top cover hole pattern has changed. The side panels now come with two loose stainless pieces, masking the inside of the side panels from the cup warmer area (you can barely see one in the second picture below, along the side panel). I think it does look better. (Sorry for the camera angle, I was too lazy to move the machine from under my cabinets).
View of the cup warmer.
View of the cup warmer.
IMG_2640.jpg (169.71 KiB) Viewed 13226 times
Another view of the cup warmer.
Another view of the cup warmer.
IMG_2641.jpg (96.68 KiB) Viewed 13226 times
4. There is no more brass cup around the vacuum breaker valve. I'm not sure which version of the Vivaldi (plumb-in vs Mini) had one but I was expecting one. There is only a flexible plastic cover. As I will have the machine turned on two times a day with the timer (making the vacuum breaker valve spit water two times a day inside the machine, I'm thinking about replacing it with a brass cup or change the valve to the nippled version with silicone tubing going to the drip tray. (See the second picture from the top.)

While looking inside the machine, I was surprised to see a cable coming from the control box, looped, and attached to the water output tubing of the flowmeter. I haven't tried to see what is hidden at its end... What is its purpose? Programming? Inside temperature of the machine for safety reasons (auto-shutdown)?

I am still missing a few accessories (timer, tamper (!), etc.) but I still managed to make the best espresso I've ever done after only two grinding adjustment shots. This is coming from almost 2 years with a PIDed Silvia. I'm happy and reassured about my mental condition, with two grands put toward an espresso machine (!).

--
Louis
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slo
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Re: New version of the S1 Vivaldi II (SSR, no plastic cup ra

Post by slo »

Congratulation Louis.

I think that it does indeed look better without the plastic rail.

The Vivaldi never had a cup around the Vacuum breaker, that I know of. The plastic guard was added a few years back to reduce the splattering of water and frankly the boiler is so hot that all water evaporates almost instantly. Never seen any water running off. Give it a try before making the mod but it sure would not hurt.
Vivaldi II, Multiple (a collection really) Lever machines
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Backup grinders: Robur, Major.
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Louis

Re: New version of the S1 Vivaldi II (SSR, no plastic cup ra

Post by Louis »

slo wrote:Congratulation Louis.
Merci!
slo wrote:The Vivaldi never had a cup around the Vacuum breaker, that I know of. The plastic guard was added a few years back to reduce the splattering of water and frankly the boiler is so hot that all water evaporates almost instantly. Never seen any water running off. Give it a try before making the mod but it sure would not hurt.
Am I correct to assume that only the Mini had the brass cup? I've seen a good picture of one on this forum but can't find it now. Here is a picture from Endo: viewtopic.php?p=16259#p16259 (second picture in post).

I asked to get the brass cup but this is not a part that my vendor has at hand. I asked for the nippled vacuum breaker valve with silicone tubing so I can redirect sputtering to the drip tray. This may or may not be useful...
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chas
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Re: New version of the S1 Vivaldi II (SSR, no plastic cup ra

Post by chas »

Thanks for those shots. They are very interesting.

It actually appears that most, if not all, of these changes are to reduce manufacturing costs and not to directly benefit the consumer. Of all the folks that have passed through this forum I am only aware of one-maybe two- that had to replace the triac. Now that LaSpaz has gone with the two-in-one SSR this is probably cheaper than either dual triac boards plus a fan or two individual SSRs. However, if you blew a triac before, it may have been cheaper to replace that small PC board than to replace the dual SSR module. I imagine they are mostly able to get rid of the fan because mounting the SSR on the side of the frame uses the whole chassis as a heat sink. (AC switching SSRs still integrate a triac.) So this change mostly swaps out two small, discrete component PC boards for one module that likely incorporates a lot of the same components. At least they are all sealed in the module against the elements which is important in this environment since the triac board and these modules are under the boiler and adjacent to the three way and expansion valves.

I assumed that the nickel plating was to prevent the boilers form corroding so it will be interesting to see how things go without that plating inside that hot humid environment.
Chas
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chas
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Re: New version of the S1 Vivaldi II (SSR, no plastic cup ra

Post by chas »

Check this out. Rotate it 90 degrees left and it looks pretty much like the same thing or at least equivalent. Cheapest price is about $68 USD.

http://www.crydom.com/en/Products/Catalog/dual.pdf
Chas
LM GS/3 & LaSpaziale Dream v 1.25 (US 120V)
Mazzer Kony E, Customized Rocky
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Endo

Re: New version of the S1 Vivaldi II (SSR, no plastic cup ra

Post by Endo »

I like SSR. It's nice to have everything quiet and well shielded. It's not enough to make me change out my fan, but I think it's a very good improvement. If it's cheaper for LaSpaziale, that's just win-win.

On the other hand, I'm not sure what happened with the boilers. Are they unplated copper? I thought the old one was nickel plated brass? Uncoated copper is softer, so I assume cheaper to form for LaSpaziale, but it oxidizes and turns green (not that they look very nice new either). :shock: They should have made the steam boiler stainless like the Mini, and wrapped it in insulation. The brew boiler should have stayed like it was. I wouldn't be happy with this change at all.

The top is very nice though. This is one part where it looks like they increased the cost. Getting rid of the fragile plexi-guard makes sense too.

I have no idea why they continue to use the big dorky vacuum breaker and cheap looking plastic shield. The short vacuum breaker and cup on the Mini works prefectly. I assume they used the short breaker on the Mini because they need to raise the boiler to make way for the reservoir and there was no room under the frame. But why not on the S1 as well? Do they have a bunch of the big breakers sitting around they need to get rid of?
oton

Re: New version of the S1 Vivaldi II (SSR, no plastic cup ra

Post by oton »

Why copper for the boilers? And not insulated!?

Copper have a thermal transfer 4 times better than brass and, without insulation, the heat loss will be huge. (The cups on the tray will be HOT). Or I'm wrong?

"Green" is an unknow word for La Spaz. :roll:
peter

Re: New version of the S1 Vivaldi II (SSR, no plastic cup ra

Post by peter »

I've been scratching my head for some time, every time the subject of the new Vivaldis came up; my VII was purchased new from CCS May '10, and it never had the plastic cup rail. Other than the hole pattern of the cup warmer, it's identical to the photos Louis posted.

Hopefully they'll be offering the upgrade to the dual SSR, as the fan noise drives me batty.
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chas
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Re: New version of the S1 Vivaldi II (SSR, no plastic cup ra

Post by chas »

Rather than spend $150 - $200 for an upgrade, you can make the fan just about inaudible for no more than the cost of 2 bolts and 4 nuts at your local HW store. Just search Noisy Fan and you'll find all the info you need to silence your fan.

Just ask yourself: "What would Endo do?"
Chas
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Louis

Re: New version of the S1 Vivaldi II (SSR, no plastic cup ra

Post by Louis »

Endo wrote:On the other hand, I'm not sure what happened with the boilers. Are they unplated copper? I thought the old one was nickel plated brass?
oton wrote:Why copper for the boilers? And not insulated!?

Copper have a thermal transfer 4 times better than brass and, without insulation, the heat loss will be huge. (The cups on the tray will be HOT). Or I'm wrong?

"Green" is an unknow word for La Spaz. :roll:
Where does the information comes from in regard to the boiler material for the older S1? I always read "brass" but as far as I can tell, my bare copper boiler with brass top looks identical to the former plated boiler. The former plated boiler "finish/texture" certainly doesn't look at all like my marine grade brass Silvia boiler (copper being smooth while brass is rough). What if the boilers were made of copper from the beginning, not brass, and that this is simply confirmed by the fact that La Spaziale no longer plates them?
Endo

Re: New version of the S1 Vivaldi II (SSR, no plastic cup ra

Post by Endo »

Brass is just copper with 30% zinc added. The Silvia boiler is a cast brass which is why it is rough. The castled cap on the back of the Vivaldi brew boiler is a similar cast brass.

Actually, the brew boiler assembly is made of several parts. It may be that the back of the brew boiler was always copper, I just always assumed it was brass. Either way, I prefer it to be nickel plated, for oxidation resistance and looks.

On the other side of the frame, there is a cast aluminum flange/spacer. And attached to that is the flange for the front half of the brew boiler. This appears to be a machined piece of solid bar stock. I'm not sure of the material here, but I would assume it would be a high thermal conductivity material like plated copper or brass. Bolted to this is the grouphead, which seems to be cast brass, which is ground smooth and then chrome plated.
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slo
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Re: New version of the S1 Vivaldi II (SSR, no plastic cup ra

Post by slo »

chas wrote:Rather than spend $150 - $200 for an upgrade, you can make the fan just about inaudible for no more than the cost of 2 bolts and 4 nuts at your local HW store. Just search Noisy Fan and you'll find all the info you need to silence your fan.
Hard to believe that only lifting the fan off the frame would make the sound go away but it does! I have never heard it again after the addition of spacers.
Vivaldi II, Multiple (a collection really) Lever machines
Currently on deck grinders: Mythos and MXKR
Backup grinders: Robur, Major.
Toper Cafemino Electric and Poppery 1 roaster

I have a serious problem ... Can you guess what?
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