Steel frame... will it rust?

[Louis]

I intend to pull the trigger on a Vivaldi II in the coming months and still have a few unanswered questions before I proceed.

One of my concerns is rust.

Chris Nachtrieb in many of his videos insists on the fact that "an espresso machine gets wet and the last thing you want is for the frame to rust".

Of course, as you all know, the Vivaldi frame is painted steel, instead of stainless steel.

Doing a lot of searches on HB, CG or here didn't bring any outstanding issues but I've stumbled across few pictures of Vivaldi frames with surface rust (for example, see the picture my post on HB, from the Control Box Upgrade document: http://www.home-barista.com/advice/rese ... ml#p180392.

Do you have rust / surface rust on yours? If so, what are the wearing parts to check regularly? Any preventive maintenance / solutions?

For long time Vivaldi users, as this been an issue? Does it stops at surface rust or does it eventually degenerate to a point where one would think about sending the frame for sanding / powder coat?

[Bitches_Brew]

i can't tell for sure, but that almost looks like coffee residue. sorta like what you would find in your drip tray. do you have some more examples?

[chas]

Since I see by the post on HB that the rust reference was a photo of my old machine, I can assure that it isn't rust. I confess on a lot of the How-To photos I have posted on the site, I did not clean my machine to make it look more presentable before taking photos.

I'm pretty sure Bitches_Brew is correct.

I had both the original V1 and the V2 for about 2.5 years each and I don't ever remember seeing any rust.

[Endo]

I have no sign of rust on mine and have not seen any elsewhere either. Yes, the metal used is more likely to rust than stainless, but the black coating is VERY thick and seems to do a good job of protecting it.

There is nothing else you can do to prevent corrosion, but if you saw any signs of it, you could always blend it out easily and touch it up with black paint. But really, nobody sees the frame anyway.

Unless you are pulling shots on the surface of an aircraft carrier, I wouldn't worry about it.

[chas]

I'm guessing that the black "paint" is actually an epoxy based powder coat.

[Endo]

The only place where I could see it rusting was under the reservoir on my Mini. The plastic reservoir slides on the epoxy paint, scuffing it up a bit over time. I'm sure the paint is plenty hard enough, but just as a precaution (and since it looks cool) I added some long rub strips using metal drier duct tape. Seems to slide in better too (since the contact surface area is much smaller).

Rub Strips

IMG_2686 (640x427).jpg (154.45 KiB) Viewed 13286 times

[Louis]

So the epoxy based powder coat is thick and should last, as this machine was built with commercial quality.

It doesn't seem rust would be a problem for home users.

Who is the oldest known Vivaldi user on the forum? Maybe I should check with him (PM): if it is not an issue for him, I'll be sure this is really a non-issue.

I just want to be sure I am ready to sacrifice the thick stainless steel frame of the Alex Duetto II (even if I prefer the Vivaldi two for its functionality).

[oton]

So the epoxy based powder coat is thick and should last, as this machine was built with commercial quality.

It doesn't seem rust would be a problem for home users.

Who is the oldest known Vivaldi user on the forum? Maybe I should check with him (PM): if it is not an issue for him, I'll be sure this is really a non-issue.

I just want to be sure I am ready to sacrifice the thick stainless steel frame of the Alex Duetto II (even if I prefer the Vivaldi two for its functionality).

Why do you prefer the Vivaldi over the Izzo?

[Louis]

Why do you prefer the Vivaldi over the Izzo?

See my (long) thread on HB: http://www.home-barista.com/advice/rese ... 14939.html

I was looking for something that doesn't exists yet, under $2500 (aka La Marzocco GS/3):
1. reservoir & plumbable
2. automatic (volumetric)
3. DB

The Duetto had #1 and #3. The Vivaldi had #2 and #3 (didn't want to go the FloJet route to use a plumb-in with a tank).

I prefered #2 over #1 (with the Vivaldi it's reservoir or plumbable).

See the rest of the thread for a detailed comparison of both machines and my concerns with each (remembering both should be excellent machines!).

[symbology]

The only place where I could see it rusting was under the reservoir on my Mini. The plastic reservoir slides on the epoxy paint, scuffing it up a bit over time. I'm sure the paint is plenty hard enough, but just as a precaution (and since it looks cool) I added some long rub strips using metal drier duct tape. Seems to slide in better too (since the contact surface area is much smaller).

IMG_2686 (640x427).jpg

That is a good idea.

On my Quick Mills I just used a few strips of of clear packing tape (the good thick stuff) and that worked pretty good as well. I also used the same clear tape to cover the S1 emblem and the magnet on my timer. That way the surface will not get scratched.

[oton]

Why do you prefer the Vivaldi over the Izzo?

See my (long) thread on HB: http://www.home-barista.com/advice/rese ... 14939.html

I was looking for something that doesn't exists yet, under $2500 (aka La Marzocco GS/3):
1. reservoir & plumbable
2. automatic (volumetric)
3. DB

The Duetto had #1 and #3. The Vivaldi had #2 and #3 (didn't want to go the FloJet route to use a plumb-in with a tank).

I prefered #2 over #1 (with the Vivaldi it's reservoir or plumbable).

See the rest of the thread for a detailed comparison of both machines and my concerns with each (remembering both should be excellent machines!).

Wow. As I see that you have little less than a thesis, I only can tell you that -to me- the volumetric feature it's not very important... because it doesn't work. First, because the technology used it's not very accurate; this isn't a chronometer, there are variations of volume between shot and shot. And second: the coffee it's a live product. It's changing constantly. The dose and grind that works ok one day, it isn't ok the next day and you'll have to dial it again and reprogram the volumetric button.

Like you, I thought the feature was very important, but not now. I do not think many people here use it... I completely understand your idea of "automatic machine", but to me it doesn't work very well.

[jpt]

Wow. As I see that you have little less than a thesis, I only can tell you that -to me- the volumetric feature it's not very important... because it doesn't work. First, because the technology used it's not very accurate; this isn't a chronometer, there are variations of volume between shot and shot.

I actually use the automatic dosing every time I make coffee. I've set the two cup button to give me two lungos. Without coffee that gives me 1.2 dl of water. I use that to prewarm the gruppo while I'm grinding and tamping. I also use that when making cappas. The brew goes blond when doing lungos, but in the end the cappas (I make two at the same time) taste better than with normal shots. With normal shots, I'm using both automatic dosing and manual stopping, depending whether I'm feeling lazy or not.

After reading your post, I made same measurements. The one cup button gave me exactly 1dl of water every time. So to me the dosing seems very accurate. When adding the coffee into the equation, things get somewhat different as it can absorb different amount of water. I don't know if there are any differences in the dosing between Mini and S1V2. I've got the latter one.

[Endo]

Oton, you bring up a good point.

See my new post on Mini voumetric dosing inaccuracy here:

http://www.s1cafe.com./viewtopic.php?f=35&t=1483

[Louis]

Since I see by the post on HB that the rust reference was a photo of my old machine, I can assure that it isn't rust. I confess on a lot of the How-To photos I have posted on the site, I did not clean my machine to make it look more presentable before taking photos.

I'm pretty sure Bitches_Brew is correct.

I had both the original V1 and the V2 for about 2.5 years each and I don't ever remember seeing any rust.

Thanks for your feedback. This settles my worries about a Vivaldi frame rusting.