Would you do it again?

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okaychatt

Would you do it again?

Post by okaychatt »

Hi.

I am currently researching espresso machines.

I would love to have a db, mainly because I do not want to do the water dance and because I want the easy temp control.

I want to be able to prepare three or four lattes in quick succession, and I want a minimum of fuss while I'm doing that.

I've read the General Q and As and have the impression that the S1 takes a fair amount of tweaking to keep it running - sometimes right out of the box.

I am not a geek when it comes to inspecting the innards of a machine. Taking one apart and putting it back together so it actually works is not my idea of fun. In fact, I would compare that experience to the third ring of Dante's Hell. :shock:

I love the looks of this machine, and the db has a magnetic pull for me. As does the temp control.

I'm sure that all new, just opened machines are susceptible to loosened connections, and I can probably handle that.

However, I'm concerned about the other quirks mentioned in the Q and A and how much I would need to expect to make mini repairs over the ensuing months.

Would you all do it over again? Why or why not?

Any non-geeks out there that can share their experiences with the S1 maintenance?

Thanks.
bobroseman

Post by bobroseman »

I can only say that all machines have foibles but the S1 less than most. In the 18 months that I've owned my machine I've had to open the case only to put in a retrofit (you won't have to do this).

If you buy your machine from Chris coffee, you needn't worry about support. And of course, there is us.

I believe that Chris will put the machine on the bench and thouroughly test it out before shipping it.

Next time you are in Atlanta maybe we can get together and you can play with my machine.

Bob
okaychatt

Post by okaychatt »

<Next time you are in Atlanta maybe we can get together and you can play with my machine

Sounds like a plan, Bob.

It's hard to lay down this kind of money on something you can't try out first, isn't it?

I assume that most of the kinks have been worked out of the S1 by now, though there still seems to be problems with dripping.

Are there any others I should be aware of that seem to reach across all S1s?

I've read the forums, but it's difficult to tell which problems are unique to individual machines and which problems all S1s share.

I may wait until the plumbed in drip tray is available so I don't have to do a retrofit.

Thanks.
Kay
zak42

Post by zak42 »

okaychatt wrote:I assume that most of the kinks have been worked out of the S1 by now, though there still seems to be problems with dripping.
I've had mine 2 months or so now, and have no dripping issues, and although I've thought about a few tweaks for mine, its still running as it came out of the box (other than i tightened the steam boiler connections), and produces great shots and has awesome steaming power.

There are certainly things on the S1 i'd prefer to be changed, but non of them are deal breakers (see the suggested improvements page). If you really want a dual boiler (and I wanted DB for the same reasons as you), there's not really any competition, the brewtus, which i'm sure is a good machine just isn't in the same league with its vibe pump and pour over resoervour. The other DB competition is still all vaporware at this point, Chris's (Coffee) new dual boiler machine, which sounded similar to the brewtus in specs & price point, and the new LM GS3, which isn't going to be out until next year and will be by the sounds of it at least 2x the price of an S1. Stepping outside of the DB choices, the only HX machines left on my short list were the andreja premium and the wega lrya. I think the wega is probably the closest match for the S1, its plumped, has a rotary pump, one nice thing it has that the S1 doesn't is the separate hot water boiler, i find the hot water outlet on the S1 to be far too hot for making americano's.

I'd totally do it again.
bobroseman

Post by bobroseman »

zak42 wrote:
okaychatt wrote:I assume that most of the kinks have been worked out of the S1 by now, though there still seems to be problems with dripping.
I've had mine 2 months or so now, and have no dripping issues, and although I've thought about a few tweaks for mine, its still running as it came out of the box (other than i tightened the steam boiler connections), and produces great shots and has awesome steaming power.

There are certainly things on the S1 i'd prefer to be changed, but non of them are deal breakers (see the suggested improvements page). If you really want a dual boiler (and I wanted DB for the same reasons as you), there's not really any competition, the brewtus, which i'm sure is a good machine just isn't in the same league with its vibe pump and pour over resoervour. The other DB competition is still all vaporware at this point, Chris's (Coffee) new dual boiler machine, which sounded similar to the brewtus in specs & price point, and the new LM GS3, which isn't going to be out until next year and will be by the sounds of it at least 2x the price of an S1. Stepping outside of the DB choices, the only HX machines left on my short list were the andreja premium and the wega lrya. I think the wega is probably the closest match for the S1, its plumped, has a rotary pump, one nice thing it has that the S1 doesn't is the separate hot water boiler, i find the hot water outlet on the S1 to be far too hot for making americano's.

I'd totally do it again.
You could bleed off some water before collecting some for your Americano. I think that would give you cooler water. Why not give ift a try and let us know.

Regarding a plumbed in drip tray. I am against it because I find it useful to take out the drip tray when I'm pulling shots into oversized cups or collecting a liter of water for my french press. Besides, it is much easier to clean over the sink than "in situ". Since my S1 is right by the sink, emptying it is no problem.

Bob
okaychatt

Post by okaychatt »

zak42 wrote:still running as it came out of the box

the only HX machines left on my short list were the andreja premium and the wega lrya. I think the wega is probably the closest match for the S1, its plumped, has a rotary pump, one nice thing it has that the S1 doesn't is the separate hot water boiler, i find the hot water outlet on the S1 to be far too hot for making americano's.
Good news about out of the box useability.

Why would the S1's hot water outlet be too hot for Americanos? I don't drink them often, but every once in a while it's nice for a quick afternoon cup.

It doesn't work differently from other machines, does it? Don't they all heat to the same steam temp?

RE: Lyra - I hadn't considered that one until you mentioned it. It is a beaut, but it's not a db.

I'm still somewhat undecided, but I'm leaning S1's way.

Thanks for your response, Zak.
okaychatt

Post by okaychatt »

bobroseman wrote:could bleed off some water before collecting some for your Americano. I think that would give you cooler water. Why not give ift a try and let us know.

Regarding a plumbed in drip tray. I am against it because I find it useful to take out the drip tray when I'm pulling shots into oversized cups or collecting a liter of water for my french press. Besides, it is much easier to clean over the sink than "in situ". Since my S1 is right by the sink, emptying it is no problem.
Simple solution to the Americanos issue. I was going to suggest that but then got a case of newbieitis. Seems that when I try to answer a question, I find I often don't have all the facts. CG can make one a bit wary.

RE: plumbed in tray - good points. Leaving it as is does make the machine more flexible for the uses you pointed out.
zak42

Post by zak42 »

okaychatt wrote:It doesn't work differently from other machines, does it? Don't they all heat to the same steam temp?

RE: Lyra - I hadn't considered that one until you mentioned it. It is a beaut, but it's not a db.
The Lyra does something different, i think it generates hot water in a similar way to how the brew water is generated, rather than pulling off the steam boiler directly.

Yeah, its not DB, but other than the brewtus, there doesn't seem to be any other DB's to consider.
RobertD

Post by RobertD »

While certainly not to the point of buyer's remorse, I too have become concerned about the ongoing level of effort necessary to maintain the machine. I wanted to become an espresso hobbiest, not get into the repair business.

So far I have had to deal with a heating coil gone bad, which required packing it all up and shipping back to the distributor. A pain in the glutes. Since then, I have been dealing with a leaking pressure regulator (coming from the open area where the "spring" is, not the base). A replacement part is on the way. If nothing else goes wrong, then I will be forever greatfull that I made the purchse; it is a fantastic machine!

I agree with the point made about NOT plumbing the drip tray. It is easy to remove and clean.
bobroseman

Post by bobroseman »

RobertD wrote:While certainly not to the point of buyer's remorse, I too have become concerned about the ongoing level of effort necessary to maintain the machine. I wanted to become an espresso hobbiest, not get into the repair business.

So far I have had to deal with a heating coil gone bad, which required packing it all up and shipping back to the distributor. A pain in the glutes. Since then, I have been dealing with a leaking pressure regulator (coming from the open area where the "spring" is, not the base). A replacement part is on the way. If nothing else goes wrong, then I will be forever greatfull that I made the purchse; it is a fantastic machine!

I agree with the point made about NOT plumbing the drip tray. It is easy to remove and clean.
Robert,

Would it be impertinent to ask from whom you purchased your machine?

Bob
RobertD

Post by RobertD »

Bob,

Through a connection, I got it directly from La Spaziale USA in Seattle. I am not sure of their relationship with Chris's Coffee, as the latter is suposidly the U.S. distributor.

Robert
BillK

Post by BillK »

Boy, would I ever do it again. And it does not take any tweaking at all. It is a anti-tweak machine compared to the hx machine I had.

Hey, I thought your budget wouldn't allow an S1.

As you know from what I posted on the Coffegeek board, I have had my machine since August of this year. I opened it up once, for the purpose of insulating the steam boiler. In performing this job, I found an improperly-crimped electrical connection, and I fixed it. There have been absolutely no other problems.

I think that my temperature runs cooler than the indicated settings, but I am not totally convinced of this, and it matters little, as I just change the temperature until I get the best flavor. Once the machine has been set to my preferred temperature setting, I get virtually identical-tasting shots, over and over.

My machine worked perfectly, right out of the box, and has never had a hiccup of any kind.

I think you have the wrong impression, based on what you have written. It sounds as though you feel that this machine has the right features for you, but you are being put off by a perception of problems and lack of quality that you are getting from the history you see on this board. This is a high quality machine throughout. The components are top-notch. The build looks to me to be excellent, with the one problem that I have noted. If you buy from Chris (and maybe others, but I can only comment on Chris) and have a problem, you *are* going to be taken care of. If I were going to buy an S1 today, I would tell the dealer I decide to buy it from that I want the machine opened up and the steam boiler heatint element connections checked for a tight fit on the connectors, as I do think there is a chance that a current vintage S1 can have this problem.

I will reiterate that I think you are on exactly the right path with the dual boiler machine: God Bless all the coffeegeeks who swear by their hx machines, but I have been there and done that and am here to tell that it is NOT an easy thing to consistently flush to the correct temperature under the varying conditions you will experience in the home environment. Period. I will never go back to an hx machine (and I will never go back to a vibe pump).

You do not have many choices. The Brewtus is an obvious alternative. The greenback has been strengthening against the Euro to the current point where $1.17 will buy you one Euro. Back when the exchange rate was $1.26, I figured that if it ever dropped to $1.16 the Reneva Techno would be as cheap as the S1. This makes for an interesting option, in that the Techno has everything the S1 has, and it's bit more compact. However, the U.S.A. support is weaker if you have a problem, and eventually you will have a problem no matter which machine you get. Finally, Chriscoffee has been working with Andreja on a dual boiler, vibe-pump machine but that one is delayed, at best, from the sound of it.

Yes, you can easily do 4 milk drinks in quick succession. I have removed the retention spring from my portafilter handle, so that the basket falls right out if you tip the handle upside down. I have 4 baskets. I load them all ahead of time. Then I flush-up the group head to get it to the right temperature. Then I steam a pitcher of milk. Then I load the first basket into the handle and fire away, and when the first shot is done I turn over the handle and drop the first (hot!) basket in a plastic container, load the second basket and fire, and so on. There is a recovery time to the brew boiler so there is a wait between shots, and you use this time to pour the milk. Keep swirling the milk and the microfoam will not separate. Bang bang bang bang done. I think you could do this equally well with any of the dual boiler machines.

I think I prefer not having a plumbed-in drip tray.
bobroseman

Post by bobroseman »

RobertD wrote:Bob,

Through a connection, I got it directly from La Spaziale USA in Seattle. I am not sure of their relationship with Chris's Coffee, as the latter is suposidly the U.S. distributor.

Robert
Thanks for the info. I would have been surprised if you had bought it from Chris. However, you have probably seen the end to your problems and will have smooth sailing from here on out.

Bob
okaychatt

Post by okaychatt »

BillK wrote:Hey, I thought your budget wouldn't allow an S1.

My machine worked perfectly, right out of the box, and has never had a hiccup of any kind.


I will never go back to an hx machine (and I will never go back to a vibe pump).

You do not have many choices. The Brewtus is an obvious alternative. . Finally, Chriscoffee has been working with Andreja on a dual boiler, vibe-pump machine but that one is delayed, at best, from the sound of it.
Wise guy. No, our budget won't allow it, but that's never stopped a self - respecting CG, has it?

Your comment on never wanting to go back to an HX is telling. That's exactly what I suspected.

I may wait to see what Chris Coffee comes up with on the new machine before taking the financial plunge.

I also want a Mazzer Mini - one of the shorter new ones, so I may do that first.

I also need to figure how much space a water softener/filtration system would take under my sink.

As it is now, the disposal takes up most of the left hand side, and the trash can takes up most of the right. I'll have to take a pic and get dimensions before I'll know if the system will work for me.

The trash can has to stay there, as there's no other spot to place it near the sink.

Hmmmmm - perhaps a new house to go with a new machine?
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Post by admin »

okaychatt wrote:
I also need to figure how much space a water softener/filtration system would take under my sink.

As it is now, the disposal takes up most of the left hand side, and the trash can takes up most of the right. I'll have to take a pic and get dimensions before I'll know if the system will work for me.

The trash can has to stay there, as there's no other spot to place it near the sink.
You can check out my filter setup here: http://www.rimpo.org/chas/TeaPlumbing.html I put the carbon filter right behind the disposal against the side wall and the softener cartridge against the back wall wedged in the space between the carbon filter and the cold water line. It is enough of a hassle to change the cartridges that when one needs replacing I just change them both.
S1 Cafe Admin
http://www.s1cafe.com
bobroseman

Post by bobroseman »

okaychatt wrote: I also need to figure how much space a water softener/filtration system would take under my sink.
Not much at all. Chis will sell you a kit that goes together like "tinker toys"

Bob
hlsheppard

Post by hlsheppard »

I would definitely do it again.

I've been really starting to "hit my stride" with the machine and I'm regularly getting some pretty darn good shots (not to mention latte art - I'll have to post some of those). 8)

Anyhow - I was a fairly long time user of the Isomac Tea. While I liked the machine (never had a problem with it) and got good results. I will NEVER go back to a pour over machine or a vibe pump. I make my coffee at 5:30am during the week and my wife loves the fact that the machine is so quiet (and so do I).

Trust me - I'm not handy at all and was really worried about the plumbing and such. Bob's comment about "Tinker Toys" above is very accurate. I changed the outlet to 20amp and added a 20amp surge supressor. Then I installed the softener filter kit and hooked the machine up without so much as a drip or leak (or electric shock LOL). I NEVER thought that we had enough room under our sink for the softener and filter - but it all went in and we still have the same amount of JUNK under there that we had beforehand... :roll:

It took me a little time to adjust to the idiosynchracies (sp?) of the machine but this site and the "main S1" site led me through it all.

Plus, it gave me something to do while waiting for the machine to come (read and learn).
BillK

Post by BillK »

"Wise guy. No, our budget won't allow it, but that's never stopped a self - respecting CG, has it?"

I couldn
okaychatt

Post by okaychatt »

[quote="BillK"]So, this is good news
bobroseman

Post by bobroseman »

okaychatt wrote:
"Hey, honey - the La Spaziale S1 Vivaldi is expensive, but the Euro is falling. Therefore, we can save some money on the machine while we're redoing the kitchen to accommodate it."
Adding the S1 to the kitchen is redecoration. :lol:

Bob
okaychatt

Post by okaychatt »

bobroseman wrote:Adding the S1 to the kitchen is redecoration. :lol:
Well then, consider my kitchen redecorated: the S1 is scheduled to arrive on Jan. 3.

Somehow Santa got the hint - couldn't have been the links to this forum and Chris Coffee on my tool bar, could it? Or the myriad HB guides to the Brewtus II and S1 left lying about the house? Or my not-so-subtle hints when guests were over, "I like my Gaggia Classic for straight espresso, but gee - it just can't seem to microfoam the way an S1 can."

Good thing Santa has learned how to read minds during our thirty two years together. :D

Thanks to all of you for your patience during my decision making.

And a big, "Thank you, Chas!" for keeping this site running. Knowing there is a knowledgeable and helpful group available to answer S1 questions was a factor in my decision making.
BillK

Post by BillK »

okaychatt wrote:
bobroseman wrote:Adding the S1 to the kitchen is redecoration. :lol:
Well then, consider my kitchen redecorated: the S1 is scheduled to arrive on Jan. 3.

Somehow Santa got the hint - couldn't have been the links to this forum and Chris Coffee on my tool bar, could it? Or the myriad HB guides to the Brewtus II and S1 left lying about the house? Or my not-so-subtle hints when guests were over, "I like my Gaggia Classic for straight espresso, but gee - it just can't seem to microfoam the way an S1 can."

Good thing Santa has learned how to read minds during our thirty two years together. :D

Thanks to all of you for your patience during my decision making.

And a big, "Thank you, Chas!" for keeping this site running. Knowing there is a knowledgeable and helpful group available to answer S1 questions was a factor in my decision making.

Cool Santa! Congratulations, Kay, I think yer gonna love it.
okaychatt

Post by okaychatt »

BillK wrote:Cool Santa! Congratulations, Kay, I think yer gonna love it.
Do you all know how hard it is, knowing my new toy is sitting in Knoxville, a mere 1 1/2 hr trip, waiting to be delivered on Tuesday, the third? That's another four days!

I felt like tackling the UPS guy when he came and left only my Black Cat beans yesterday.

I don't think UPS really needs the day off on Monday, do you? HA!
cappadoc

anticipation

Post by cappadoc »

Kay,
I can relate to the nail-biting. I got mine on 12-23-05, but it was a close thing. UPS mis-directed the La Spaz on 12-19 and it almost got left until after Christmas! I got lucky when I called them as I know the manager who expedited the shipment. I've already made a homemade PF pressure gauge (~$15). I drove to Chicago yesterday to get the Black Cat. This stuff is terribly addictive! You WILL NOT be disappointed.
Jeff
okaychatt

Re: anticipation

Post by okaychatt »

cappadoc wrote:Kay,
I can relate to the nail-biting. I got mine on 12-23-05, but it was a close thing. UPS mis-directed the La Spaz on 12-19 and it almost got left until after Christmas! I got lucky when I called them as I know the manager who expedited the shipment. I've already made a homemade PF pressure gauge (~$15). I drove to Chicago yesterday to get the Black Cat. This stuff is terribly addictive! You WILL NOT be disappointed.
Jeff
If I ever get to play with the S1, I'm sure I'll be happy.

Problem is, I'm leaving town the afternoon of the third and returning the following Saturday. The trip has been planned for a long while, so I don't want to cancel.

Then I'll have to wait awhile until I can get the S1 properly hooked up.

I've told DH not to open anything. I want to be there for the birth. HA!
ishcoco

Re: anticipation

Post by ishcoco »

cappadoc wrote:Kay,
I drove to Chicago yesterday to get the Black Cat. This stuff is terribly addictive! You WILL NOT be disappointed.
Jeff

Jeff, next time you are in Chicago, take a visit to Metropolis, and try their redline espresso. A subtly different flavor than the "kitty", but really nice, especially in capps/lattes. Their customer service is a ton better, too, IMHO.

I usually switch between the two roasters, but have had more consistency recently with Metropolis. Congrats on the machine!
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