La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II

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a312

La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II

Post by a312 »

I am interested in purchasing this espress machine. I have notcied that there are a few places online where this machine can be purchased. Can anyone suggest where I should purchase this item online and any experiences that you may have had with the different sellers, pros, cons, etc?

Thanks
Endo

Re: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II

Post by Endo »

Where do you live?
a312

Re: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II

Post by a312 »

North East - US
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chas
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Re: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II

Post by chas »

Chris Coffee Service is the obvious answer. CC is the sole importer for these machines. As I understand it, if you order it from another vendor they are usually just drop shipped from CC anyway.
Chas
LM GS/3 & LaSpaziale Dream v 1.25 (US 120V)
Mazzer Kony E, Customized Rocky
Hottop P/B
Endo

Re: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II

Post by Endo »

Yup. That's an easy one then. Chris Coffee in Albany. I can't say enough good things about them!
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chas
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Re: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II

Post by chas »

Oh and don't just order it over the Internet. There is usually some level of discount offered if you call - even more if you pair it with a new grinder.
Chas
LM GS/3 & LaSpaziale Dream v 1.25 (US 120V)
Mazzer Kony E, Customized Rocky
Hottop P/B
Endo

Re: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II

Post by Endo »

If you are less than a 2 hr drive away, I'd definitely consider driving there to pick it up.

I think it's always a wise idea to talk to the people you are planning on doing business with. Yyou'll also have the chance to compare it to some of the other high-end machines Chris carries.

Just don't look too long at the paddle GS/3! :shock:
Dodger1

Re: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II

Post by Dodger1 »

The folks at Chris Coffee will treat you right and in the unlikely event you have a problem with anything you purchased from them, their service department is second to none.

Back in May of 09 I followed Chas advice and called them directly. I explained what I was looking for and they walked me through what they thought would be appropriate, without the least bit of sales hype, just honest advice. Since I was new to the world of making my own espressos, they set me up with everything I would need and offered what I considered a sizable discount over their advertised price.

If you do call them, I'd suggest talking to either Mary, or Chris.

I've been using the machine you're looking to buy for 10 months now and in retrospect I know I made the right choice.

Keith
BobUSN

Re: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II

Post by BobUSN »

Here's another vote for Chris!

(I Just ordered a Baratza Vario from him today...)
JmanEspresso

Re: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II

Post by JmanEspresso »

Nice choice on the Vario Bob!

Before I got my Macap MXK, I was using the Vario. We bought one for Christmas, and its main intended use, is for brewing/cupping. But, of course, once the Christmas morning festivities were over, first thing I just had to do, was try out the Vario for my espresso. I still had the Major then, and coffee from Ecco Cafe.. Anyway. I dialed in the Vario(from out of the box, to pulling the first proper shot, was under 30 minutes, including 3 dial in shots, and easily 10-15minutes reading the manually and oogling the grinder).

The Vario produced some absolutley wonderful shots, and all of us enjoyed cappuccinos on Christmas. With the help of the doserless vario and the Vivaldi, the Capps were scrum-diddly-umptious.

The next few days, I continue to use the Vario. I used up the coffees I had from Ecco, and the results were fantastic. The major just sat there.. Unused, looking ugly(my Major, despite its raw capability, was not aesthetically pleasing). So, I used it again. I figured I would of course, put the Vario in the kitchen, and relegate it to brewed duty after going back to the 83mm flat burr major.

But no, thats not what happened. Even with some half formal blind testing of the two against each other, I couldn't tell a difference at all. The vario was just as easy to dial in and adjust, and the shots poured and tasted near identical. The only difference, was I enjoyed using the Vario more! Doserless, Timed.. Push a button and you've got your dose, perfectly distributed, ready for tamping.

Whats the point of this story?

The Vario is what made me sell my Major. Overall, the grind quality of them was equal, to me. But the usability of the vario, plus its good looks, made me really dislike my Major. So, I took the major off the bench and cleaned up, ready to sell. I used the Vario for a little more then a month as my one and only espresso grinder, while I looked around for a conical I could afford. Once I got the Macap MXK, I calibrated the Vario so it was biased toward the coarser grinds, to give me full flexibility for brewing and cupping.

Long story short.. Going from the Rocky, you should just adore the Vario. Its a wonderful grinder. Even if you use it for everything, its such a trivial matter to switch grind settings.

One piece of advice: Dial in the GRIND first, using your scale and the "Manual" Button. Once you're grind is set for the dose that you want, THEN set the timer. Its simple, once your dialed in for your grind setting.. use the manual button to grind the approximate amount you need, and watch how long it takes. Then set the timer to roughly where it should be, and fine tune it by pulling shots. This will go quicker/make more sense when you have it in front of you. When grinding on manual, it counts UP, in whole seconds. When using the Timed Buttons, it Counts DOWN, in 1/10'th seconds. Oh, one other tip. Program one of the Timed Dosing Buttons for 1.3seconds, and use this as your "purge" button, and "pulse" button. It will add a half gram of coffee, and its easier then trying to hit the manual button on and off so quickly..a lot easier actually.

Ok, Im done, back to the Vivaldi :bounce:
JohnB

Re: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II

Post by JohnB »

JmanEspresso wrote: Long story short..

:lol: Not you Jeff!!
Endo

Re: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II

Post by Endo »

:evil4: :evil4: :evil4: :evil4:

Espresso Otaku !
JohnB wrote:
JmanEspresso wrote: Long story short..

:lol: Not you Jeff!!
BobUSN

Re: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II

Post by BobUSN »

JmanEspresso wrote:Nice choice on the Vario, Bob!
Thanks, Jman! Wonderful advice. Got it last night & have been enjoying since.
Last edited by BobUSN on Fri Mar 19, 2010 8:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Endo

Re: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II

Post by Endo »

My neighbor's Vario just died for no apparent reason, after only two months of light use. Not encouraging. I feel kinda bad for them since it was me that recommended the grinder when she said she wanted a nice Christmas present for her coffee loving husband. :-(

Well, I guess that's why you don't see much electronics on the commercial Mazzers. A business can't afford that kind of downtime.

They are going to send her one of their redesigned front panels. Let's hope it's more robust.

I think I'll wait another year or two before I get a Vario so they can work out all the teething issues and we can see what the longterm durability is really like.
BobUSN

Re: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II

Post by BobUSN »

a312 wrote:I am interested in purchasing this espress machine.
a312--I guess we hijacked your thread...how goes the process?
a312

Re: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II

Post by a312 »

No problem, lots of good info. here - thanks everyone. I decided to go with the Mini II. Wish CC had them in stock now. Can't wait to get it. The 3 to 4 week wait will be worth it though.

Now, regarding grinders, I was looking at the Rocky and the Vario. Looks like some of you have experience with one and/or the other. Any input you can give me as to pros, cons of each one? Should I go doser or doserless? Does the vario allow you to program the amount of the shot that is dispensed?

Thanks again everyone.
BobUSN

Re: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II

Post by BobUSN »

(Edited, as my initial post was from my iPhone. This started as a short post!)

We pull about five or six doubles a day now, but I'm pretty new to this hi-end coffee stuff, having picked up my Vivaldi II in February...though I've been making espresso since the mid-90s on the Estro Profi & Starbucks Barista, both pressurized portafilter machines. I've been using the Rocky for only four months, and it was my first decent grinder. The Profi had a built-in grinder (adequate for the Profi as long as it worked), and I used (don't laugh too hard--I got it for less than $20 at Home Goods!) a Mr. Coffee burr grinder with the Barista for some time. I have to say I am still quite pleased with the Rocky, though it has its limitations. So, weigh all this when you read my $0.02.

As a short-time (three days!) Vario user, I can tell you I already prefer it over my dosered Rocky. The Vario grinds are clearly more consistent, and the adjustments are more precise--particularly important, I believe, at the fine end. I like how my "workflow" has improved, as now I can simply hang the PF on the holder, push the button, and grind away while doing other preps. While the Vario will grind by time to 0.1 second accuracy, I dispense and weigh my beans immediately prior to grinding and use manual simply because we drink decaf in the evening and high-test in the morning & early afternoon. The Vario makes an amazingly fluffy heap of grinds absolutely free of clumps. There's no doser to clean, but the Vario does throw a few grinds on the counter. This is more an annoyance than a real issue. And, the Vario uses considerably less counter space than the dosered Rocky.

But, the Vario does cost about $50-$100 more than the Rocky, depending on where you get it (continued thumbs-up for Chris). And "pre-owned" Rocky grinders are available for considerably less than new--you might want to start there. Still, from everything that I can remember I've read (certainly not everything that has ben written), it seems the only real unknown with the Vario is long-term reliability. (The Rocky, on the other hand, has been out for a long time.) Still, Kyle from Baratza seems very accessible and helpful.

You've probably already found there's quite a bit of info here, on HB, and on CoffeeGeek...

http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/espres ... ers/411299
http://www.google.com/search?q=baratza% ... 8&oe=utf-8


...but I'm sure the more seasoned folks here will have lots of value-added comments.

To sum it up for me, if I were to do it again, starting right now with a Vivaldi II, I'd go with the Vario. In my opinion, size, convenience, and grind precision trump the unknown reliability and higher price. I think it's great!
Endo

Re: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II

Post by Endo »

a312 wrote:Now, regarding grinders, I was looking at the Rocky and the Vario. Looks like some of you have experience with one and/or the other.
I bought a Rocky a few years ago. It was defective from day one (couldn't grind fine enough). I think it was a because the burrs were not assembled correctly (not parallel). In any case, I returned it and got a Mazzer Mini (which was great). The Rocky stepped grind adjustment is plastic junk and the loose threads for the burr carrrier make adjustment very imprecise.

I borrowed a Vario for a while. I was really impressed with the programmable dosing. It reminds me a lot of the Vivaldi. It produced an excellent shot (not quite as good as my Mazzer SJ, but not far off). It had much less grinds retention than the Mazzer though. I loved the small size and ability to grind for drip. Only complaint is that it seems a bit light and cheap once you've owned a commercial Mazzer tank. The grinds tend to fly around a bit more and it has a bit more static.

If I had to choose between the Rocky and Vario, it would be no contest. It's the Vario by a mile. In fact, if I had to choose between a Vario and a Mazzer Mini (which is almost twice the price), I'd still go with the Vario. It is NOT a commercial grinder like a Mazzer, but it is easily the best home grinder you can buy.
clumeng
Latte
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2009 11:03 am

Re: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II

Post by clumeng »

Looks like you took the plunge on the Vario Bob...glad that it's working out for you.

I've had the Vario for a few months and really like it. The Timer is a great addition IMHO and makes using it a dream. Very consistent in my hands and not much of a mess in my use. In case people are wondering it fits the 53mm PF very well and holds it nicely in place to dose.
______________________________________
Red Vivaldi II (c2009)
K30 Vario
a312

Re: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II

Post by a312 »

What settings have you all been using on the new Vario to produce a good espresso shot?

Thanks
JmanEspresso

Re: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II

Post by JmanEspresso »

Assuming it's calibrated to be in the espresso range...

I was usually:

1 Click away from the Finest on the MACRO Side

And between the coarsest and the middle on the Micro side.

for roughly 16-17gram shots, depending on coffee.

Start out one click down from the finest spot on the Macro side, and the Micro Slider in the middle. Go from there. Set up your grind setting first and grind on manual.. THEN dial in the Timer, based on how many seconds it takes on manual.
BobUSN

Re: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II

Post by BobUSN »

clumeng wrote:Looks like you took the plunge on the Vario Bob...glad that it's working out for you.
Yes, due in no small part to your encouraging experience. Thanks!

I'm using the finest Macro, and 15 clicks down on the Micro. 17g in the PF. Light tamp. Gives a nice, 40-second pull.

EDIT: corrected micro clicks from "up" to "down." Oops!
Last edited by BobUSN on Mon Mar 29, 2010 10:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
a312

Re: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II

Post by a312 »

I have what might be a stupid question, but I must ask: When programming the single and double cup buttons, approx. how much volume are you filling the espresso cup up with? 2 oz for a single and 4 oz for a double? Also, approx. extraction time for each? I know there are a lot of variables, but I'm just trying to get some ideas as to what others are doing and see what the ideal settings are that others are using.

Thanks for the help and any tips.
Endo

Re: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II

Post by Endo »

Don'y worry. Unlike other espresso forums....you won't get attacked by the moderators for asking a simple question.

What you ask is actually a smart question with many possible answers:

You see, the amount depends whether you are talking just water (rinse) or a shot (with coffee). The coffee will absorb and hold a lot of the water volume.

It also depends on whether you have the mechanical pre-infusion attached. The m/preinfusion will also hold a lot of water if you use coffee (and none if you just do a water rinse).

So to simplify things: Use one button for water rinsing (between 1.5 and 2 oz of water). Set the other for between 3 and 4 oz of espresso and cut-off the shot when it goes blond (at around 30 sec).
clumeng
Latte
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2009 11:03 am

Re: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II

Post by clumeng »

a312 wrote:I have what might be a stupid question, but I must ask: When programming the single and double cup buttons, approx. how much volume are you filling the espresso cup up with? 2 oz for a single and 4 oz for a double? Also, approx. extraction time for each?
I never pull singles and I think that very few of us do. The final volume of espresso for doubles is usually between 1.5-2oz. The general rule of thumb is to deliver that amount to the cup in 25 sec but this is far from set in stone. What matters is what is in the cup. You want to watch the extraction and stop it when it starts to blonde...blonding is when the bitter flavors can be extracted. I usually pull longer shots (30-40 sec). The variables involved in this are many but in my experience the grinder and the type of roast and age of the beans are critical. Dose is also important...I usually use 15-16g for a double.

Agree with endo. I initially thought that I'd use the volumetric dosing but I don't use it at all. My 1 cup button delivers 4oz of water and I use it to start and stop the shot. My 2 cup button delivers 2oz of water and I use it for flushes and cleaning.

Good luck and keep asking questions...we are all on a quest for better coffee...
______________________________________
Red Vivaldi II (c2009)
K30 Vario
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