The S1 Cafe - Helping Your Espresso Dreams Become Reality

Let's design the next Vivaldi here on this forum.
What would you like to see on the next unit? I'm sure it's going to be a while before the next unit is out but let's put together a reasonable wish list.

I'd like to see:
PID of course!
3 Liter steam boiler.
ability to steam @ 1.75 Bar.
No-Burn steam arm.
Better tray for plumbing into drain (w/ quick-disconnect).
Re-design the Vivaldi's body.
Control Panel LCD (would be nice but I know it's expensive).
This panel would have the ability to time shots and be a timer.
2 physical gauges (2 look cooler than 1) moved to a better location.
"Optional" steam boiler insulation (at an extra cost).

All this in the price range of $2300-2500 USD.
I know it's a tall order but it's my dream VIII machine.

You forgot to mention a 'no drip expansion valve'

Hey I was only dreamin', I know it's not possible to stop that cursed thing!
Besides, Chas has given me hope...
He managed to stop his VII from leaking.
I might drive a few thousand miles with my S1 in the trunk to pay him a visit so he can stop mine too. I don't know what kind of voodoo chant and how many chickens he had to slay to get that to work but I want some of that.

The label 'V3' implies revisions to the existing design, rather than a clean sheet S2.

For a V3 I would like to see a boiler insulation and No-Burn steam wand. Both of those could be added to the V2 tomorrow. Whatever drips are driving some owners nuts should be identified and possible fixes made available to V2 owners at some cost.

Others have suggested major overhauls which might be better called the S2. I would add some convenient pre-infusion system to the list.

Consider how fortunate we all are to be using a great espresso machine made available at a price we can afford, all while designing the next generation.

Mr.Ken

The name "S2" would mean a 2-group machine to me. Hey, I'd love that too in the home.

How about an integrated timer? Or at least a place to put the optional one that doesn't include velcro? Heck, if it was integrated into the machine, it could even include a count up/down timer too.

And I'd be all for a no-burn steam arm. That should be made available for the V1/V2 just like the current arm was.

And as long as the pressure gauge is being relocated or improved, maybe a second mounting point that would keep the thing from floating around like the single screw mount allows.

I actually like the "Burning" steam arm...keeps me on my toes.
As far as the integrated timer goes, it most certainly can be incorporated into the new front panel but I think the price would really skyrocket. Part of the GS3's high price is in that beautiful control panel, it lights up with a nice blue light and it finishes the machine off nicely. Too bad it's priced out of range for most people but it's the built-in reservoir that doesn't require plumbing that scares me. If I'm paying almost 5G's for a machine it BETTER be plumbed in. It will have a kit available to plumb it but I'm sure like everything La marzocco, it will have the Marzocco price tag !

It is so hard to make suggestions, because for my tastes the V2 is pretty close to perfect. I'm the kind of guy who is seldom satisfied with any appliance or mechanical contrivance -- but I find the V2 an absolute pleasure to use and it's tough to find much in the way of improvements that would significantly increase my enjoyment of the machine.

That said... In order of importance, these minor improvements come to mind:
(1) Insulated steam boiler. I don't need the cup warmer, and have about 1" below clear finish wood cabinets -- which are taking a beating from the heat. Insulating would reduce some of the heat output *and* perhaps even make the boiler element last longer since it would cycle less frequently. However... This could actually be a detriment to those who go through a lot of cups and need the cup warmer function.

(2) No-burn steam wand. I asked Chris about that before purchasing -- he said they considered but dropped that from the design to keep the price down. I can't imagine it would add that much (+$20?) and I'd be willing to pay for it.

(3) Gauge(s) placed where I can see them without getting down on my knees. However, this is a minor issue because I really don't look at the gauges that often.

I don't have the dripping expansion valve, and really like the body design (although I suppose it could be made easier to take apart / put together, those panels can be a bear to put back on). And I am not convinced that a PID would really do that much better job than the current electronics do.

...Scott

ScottW wrote: I don't have the dripping expansion valve, and really like the body design (although I suppose it could be made easier to take apart / put together, those panels can be a bear to put back on). And I am not convinced that a PID would really do that much better job than the current electronics do.

...Scott

I couldn't agree with you more! The dripping valve comes and goes for me, this really depends on your incoming water.
Those side panels are a PAIN in the neck, literally (my neck hurts the next day every time).
I'm now also convinced that a PID would not substantially inrease the heat performance on the machine but I threw that in there for bragging purposes.

Well, I second the suggestion to put the gauges where you can see them when you

I can live with all that except for the insulated boilers, I'm addicted to the cup warmer.
You can actually insulate the boilers yourself like some others have already done, kind of a pain but if you don't mind working inside the machine it's fairly easy, the hard part is setting time aside to do it.

Man with that kick ass water dispenser, I can warm my cups up in no time, with the added benefit of recycling the water in the steam boiler since I don

I would like to see the gauges on the top too. Also an integrated timer with a stop watch would be nice.

An S5 with one group would be a perfect VIII for me! :D

Niko wrote:

cruelbeanz wrote:An S5 with one group would be a perfect VIII for me! :D

OMG???!!!!

It's...it's...it's beautiful

me like it...very much

I chopped it just for you
Sorry I used the same ugly "S1" style logo

Niko wrote:I chopped it just for you
Sorry I used the same ugly "S1" style logo

Thanks Niko - you're all heart.

Maybe we can have the S2 Logo lit up like the S5 in this photo:

http://www.chriscoffee.com/products/cof ... le/tallek2

If you can adjust the feet - I will put your pic up as my desktop background!

Awesome stuff!

cruelbeanz wrote: If you can adjust the feet - I will put your pic up as my desktop background!

Awesome stuff!

Feet are done!

Niko wrote:

cruelbeanz wrote: If you can adjust the feet - I will put your pic up as my desktop background!

Awesome stuff!

Feet are done!

Now make sure you collect a royalty if LaSpaziale starts manufacturing this!

Thanks Niko!

Nope.
No royalties....just give me espresso and no one gets hurt
If I were to completely redesign a machine for someone....
A free machine and a kilo of their best blend will do, I'm pretty old school.
And a handshake, let's not complete a deal without the handshake

Niko wrote:Nope.
No royalties....just give me espresso and no one gets hurt
If I were to completely redesign a machine for someone....
A free machine and a kilo of their best blend will do, I'm pretty old school.
And a handshake, let's not complete a deal without the handshake

Don't you mean two machines? :P

cruelbeanz wrote: Don't you mean two machines? :P

Correct!
I forgot about the other one :P

At a minimum, I'd like to see the timer software (and perhaps the number of buttons on the timer) fixed so that a human of normal intelligence can figure out how to program the darn thing without crib sheets.

Fixing the fan on the boiler electronics to be quieter, or better yet, nonexistent - I think they just need to use a bigger heat sink and a higher-rated triac and they could get rid of the fan altogether. I modified my fan mounting and switched to a different fan so it's no longer a problem, but that shouldn't be required.

Moving the gauges, as others suggest, would be nice.

Myself, I do *not* want taller feet - it's already hard to fit on a counter underneath a cabinet.

It would be nice if the pressure adjustment could be reached without taking off the faceplate - e.g., reaching it with a screwdriver through a hole in the faceplate would be fine.

A right-angle AC plug might be nice, to permit the unit to get closer to the wall behind it (assuming it is sitting in front of the AC outlet).

I seem to recall the water inlet is a strange thread and size that is hard to find fittings for in the US.

Chris indicated that he bugged LaSpaz about the fan noise and they did something 9 or more months back. I haven't heard any newer owners mention it.

I hardly ever look at the VII gauges given their current location. When I really want to measure the pressure at the PF, I usually get out my old PF pressure gauge I bought when I had the S1. The scale on it is more granular and easier to tell when you're dead on your target pressure.

Whenever I hear someone mention the fan noise I have no idea what they are talking about so they must have fixed it before I bought mine. The Dalla Corte Mini has some nice features that could go in a V3 model.

What features are those, John?

Here is the spec page I originally looked at:
http://www.espressoparts-usa.com/produc ... _campaign=

Reading this review I have to question a few things on the above page but the Mini does seem to have a programmable pre infusion & temp adjustment to within 1/10 of a degree C.
http://coffeegeek.com/forums/espresso/machines/303831

Ah...OK.
That does sound like a nice feature.

Yeah, I agree with making the machine more user friendly, more intuitive programming, more granularity on the temp setting, easier access to the pressure adjustment. Either small or tall feet or even adjustable. Oh, and North American fittings instead of British Standard would be real nice.

My fan is real quiet, only the pump vibrates a bit and makes a louder noise than it should, needs more fiddling. It does really drip either.

But overall for the current price it is a great machine and if too many mods made the price go up I probably would stop wanting an upgrade.

I like the idea of programmable preinfusion. I guess a feature like that would require a board swap on our current machines, however.

No problem!
I'd pay the price for a new board to swap out for that feature

One small suggestion: I'd like to see the turn on/off logic for the brew and steam boilers to be the same - now you hold the on button for "awhile" for the brew boiler but momentarily for the steam boiler, then the reverse to turn them off.

Or just have seperate buttons entirely for each boiler.
I'd like to see a whole new board with built in timer, pre-infusion and seperate boiler buttons.

According to the 6th post in this thread: http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/espres ... nes/373143 there will be some improvements/upgrades made to the Vivaldis by the end of summer.

How do you like that. Here I've been trying to keep it in my sneaker for Chris and somebody else blabs! Of course they didn't hint at what it might be. I have been betaing an upgrade on my V2 that will actually end up being offered for the Mini. I soon expect to beta a different solution that will just be for the V2. So yes some neat and affordable upgrades are coming.

If anyone here with a Mini wants to Beta the Mini solution, Chris told me to go ahead and send my solution to them when I get the V2 solution. So if you are a Mini owner, interested in testing this upgrade, and don't mind doing some minor replumbing on your Mini, send me a Private message.

When these upgrades finally hit the market they'll be documented for both installation and operation right here rather than on Chris' site. No doubt Chris will have a link on his site to make it easier to find the info for owners that don't frequent this forum.

Chas - Since Chris is telling those who ask (I emailed him yesterday) about the exciting upgrade for the S1 V2 you could probably offer some details at this point. Your call.

Or you might have to tolerate our guessing.

(I'm for letting the retailer control rollout on new product. When I was in contact with LaSpaziale in Italy to find a retailer here to work with, I asked about the dual pressure gauge and whether I could have it added to my unit. They confirmed that they were indeed developing such a feature for Chris, but I didn't feel free to divulge that if he wasn't ready. To their credit--as I see it--they said nothing about the more logical and finer temperature control coming up. They didn't lie to me after I asked a direct question, and they didn't blurt either.)

But in this instance, with some leakage I feel free to speculate. Chas, you've said it involves plumbing and works for the Mini and the S2. Can't be a paddle steam valve since the Mini has it. Can't be dual manometer since both have that. PID is unlikely since most agree that the temperature stability is not likely to be much enhanced. Can't be an improved sensor since both current machines have that. So, what's left?

I'll guess pre-infusion. No Vivaldi has it now, and it would involve plumbing.

Right or wrong, I'm eager to know.

(Chas, if you think this is out of line, please delete the post.)

I'll let Chas spell out the details but your guess is on the money & for some (S1V2) no plumbing is required.

OK, see new "2008 Upgrades" forum area for high level details.

I can hardly contain myself!

Niko wrote:Control Panel LCD (would be nice but I know it's expensive).

THIS!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhSiPH5zz5s


But please La Spaz, the "SEVERAL STYLES...ONE PASSION" flashy inscription is not necessary; I repeat, IS NOT NECESSARY.

That LCD screen seems like a logical next step for the V3.

I can't see where else they could improve the machine that would have much of an impact on taste, so any change would be mostly cosmetic.

You may say 1deg F increments, pressure profiling, etc, but truth be told, this is above most buyers heads. On the other hand, a simple blue LCD display (like the Vario) or tiny white LED shot lights (like the ones people made here) would probably spike the sales.

They just need to source these electronic upgrades from China where it would cost less than $50, and not with the Italian timer supplier which would make it more like a $1000 upgrade.