HotTop or Gene Cafe?

Post by **Niko** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 12:30 pm

chas wrote:
Niko wrote:
Anyone wanna take bets on how many pieces my roaster arrives in??
I'm guessing six.

I never took you for bettin' man but "six" pieces? I see you have a lot of confidence for the folks in Brown.

4vDesmo wrote:You guys are killing me! All these new toys in transit and I can't have one. Yet.

I'll just have to sit back and watch the action I guess - kind of like watching the kids at Christmas.

You know, Steve....
you can always fly over and check it out :D and you don't have to bring your own beer (I mean beans) to the party...

Post by **4vDesmo** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 1:03 pm

Ok, I'll take you up on that offer. I'll figure a couple of weeks for you to get it unboxed and plugged in?

I going to be in San Diego for the Red Bull race this weekend. Joe Behm offered to give a first hand preview of the Behmor. Maybe even have him roast some beans for me!

Post by **bbqnut** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 1:07 pm

4vDesmo wrote:Ok, I'll take you up on that offer. I'll figure a couple of weeks for you to get it unboxed and plugged in?

I going to be in San Diego for the Red Bull race this weekend. Joe Behm offered to give a first hand preview of the Behmor. Maybe even have him roast some beans for me!

I would very interested to know your opinion on the Behmor 1600, and definitely have him roast some beans for you.

Post by **Niko** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:55 pm

Looks like I'm getting the gloves also and the roaster is also shipping via FedEx to me as well.
So all bets are off for a busted roaster from shipping, damn...

So you'll have a couple of days head start for peace and tranquility in your household.

After I get the Hottop I should start a poll asking what to do with my iRoar2:
1. donate it to the Smithsonian
2. put a big red asterisk (*loudest roaster on earth)
3. blast if off into space

or
4. load it up with 250g's and roast @ 485F for 15 minutes and watch it go up in flames in the backyard while shooting a video!

Mwahahaha!

Post by **bbqnut** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 7:21 pm

Niko wrote:Looks like I'm getting the gloves also and the roaster is also shipping via FedEx to me as well.
So all bets are off for a busted roaster from shipping, damn...

So you'll have a couple of days head start for peace and tranquility in your household.

After I get the Hottop I should start a poll asking what to do with my iRoar2:
1. donate it to the Smithsonian
2. put a big red asterisk (*loudest roaster on earth)
3. blast if off into space

or
4. load it up with 250g's and roast @ 485F for 15 minutes and watch it go up in flames in the backyard while shooting a video!
Mwahahaha!

Very funny.

I too am contemplating the ultimate fate for the only the device that annoys my neighbors (both their aural and olfactory senses).

Anyhow, all kidding aside. I really have 2 choices:

1. Sell it for probably around $100 or so.
2. Keep it as a backup

I am leaning toward keeping it, despite the Hottop being reliable. If I ever had to send it back, it would fill in nicely as a backup roaster.

Post by **Niko** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 7:30 pm

I was only trying to be funny since I compared it to the fate of the baseball homer #756.
I'm keeping my iRoar as a backup and as a companion to the Hottop for blending.

Post by **4vDesmo** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 8:21 pm

A guy who has two S1's AND an Anita (conspicuous consumer!) surely needs a backup roaster. And just like #756, you can love it or hate it, but it will still be there tomorrow.

chas · Post by **chas** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 11:26 pm

I kept my Hearthware Gourmet when I got the Hottop. Four years later I haven't used the Gourmet again yet!

However, should it need repairs, it's similar to the S1 in that it's easy to get spare parts and easy to fix yourself.

Post by **bbqnut** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 12:53 am

Actually, this brings up a question I have about the filter(s).

I think there is an exhaust filter (every 20 uses), and a top filter (every 100 uses).

Anyhow, wondered what your real-world experience is with these in terms of washing, reusing, replacement, etc. ?

chas · Post by **chas** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 8:53 am

I was very fastidious about cleaning and reusing them at first. Lately, I bought several and just keep putting in new ones while saving the old ones with the intention to clean and reuse them one of these days.

What happens to the top one in my experience is not that it gets clogged and needs to be replaced but that the filter material shrinks and then smoke just rolls out that opening. My first thought was that I could cut a piece of the black filter cloth from a used end filter and replace it. Guess what? They designed that filter just long enough that you can't do that.

The paper part of the end filter is not too bad to clean. You really just gently brush off the loose crap. The black filter cloth needs to be washed out with dish washing liquid, rinsed well, then pressed between paper towels to dry. It's pretty fragile and rips easily. I wish Hottop would sell rolls of the stuff.

chas · Post by **chas** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 11:41 am

Is it safe to assume that you two techo-geeks have already downloaded the manual from hottopusa.com and are committing it to memory?

Post by **Niko** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 2:15 pm

I'm studying it as we speak!
...too bad they don't have it in Greek

Chas, I was just watching a video clip on Youtube and noticed a VERY annoying beep! Can the stupid BEEP be turned off? Also, this thing was SMOKKKKKING - and I mean a smokin' like a 100yr old choo choo, I'm hoping this was because the operator is an idiot who likes charred beans...

I'm studying Hottop films like a pro sports franchise, designing my playbook and planning my strategy

chas · Post by **chas** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 3:17 pm

It beeps for 30 seconds when it is warmed up and ready to insert the beans and it beeps for another 30 seconds when it shuts off to let you know the beans are ready. It also beeps when(if) it hits 414F so you can override the auto shut down that will otherwise occur in 30 seconds and it beeps regardless of temp when there are 30 seconds of time left in case you want to add 30 second extensions to the time.

I am usually in the next room doing stuff so I need the beeps to know when I need to run in there and do something.

Yes, it is very smoky. I have mine in the Spa/Sun Room which is adjacent to the kitchen . I open the windows in there and close the door to the house to keep the smoke detectors from going off.

Post by **Niko** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 3:42 pm

chas wrote: Yes, it is very smoky.

Damn.
...time to get the marshmallows out

Post by **bbqnut** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 4:12 pm

chas wrote:Is it safe to assume that you two techo-geeks have already downloaded the manual from hottopusa.com and are committing it to memory?

Takes a geek to know a geek :D

I downloaded it long ago, and memorized both the D and P operations, when i wasn't sure which one I was going to get.

Regarding the filters, to me, $12 every 20 roasts seems a little steep, and then there is the top filter, which is every 100 roasts.

I am thinking that the material used in the filters may be commercially available in bulk. If so, I may be able to fabricate a bunch of these much cheaper. If it works out, maybe help some other owners save some money.

chas · Post by **chas** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 5:27 pm

I tried to take a picture of smoke rolling out of every Hottop orifice at the start of 2nd crack. Unfortunately, it didn't show up well. Oh well. You'll both find out soon enough.

The more "chaffy" the bean, the more smoke.

Post by **Niko** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 5:59 pm

Oh great...the Hottop has more than one blowhole.
I have some of the chaffiest beans on the planet, this will make my wife really like the new roaster.

....the new roaster I haven't told her about!
It's scheduled to arrive on Friday, I can't wait to show/tell her about it

Post by **bbqnut** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:06 pm

Niko wrote:Oh great...the Hottop has more than one blowhole.
I have some of the chaffiest beans on the planet, this will make my wife really like the new roaster.

....the new roaster I haven't told her about!
It's scheduled to arrive on Friday, I can't wait to show/tell her about it

I will have 2 days head start on you - that makes me feel good.

I have always roasted outside, so smoke is just not an issue.

There are advantages to living in San Diego, where the Hi & Low is almost always 78/68.

Post by **Niko** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:25 pm

OK, Mr. Feelgood :D
I just got another 20lbs from Sweet Maria's an hour ago!
...that should bring the coffee inventory in somewhere around the 210lb mark in my dining room, I think I have another 10lbs at mom's house and another few shipping with the roaster...hmm, I'm starting to lose count now

chas · Post by **chas** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:42 pm

I revel in it. The spa room where I have the Hottop becomes my own smoke lodge!

Post by **Niko** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 1:47 pm

Gentlemen, put your smoking jackets on....it's the eve before Chris gets his Hottop!
I don't roast outdoors (although the weather permits up here too) nor do I roast in a spa room, the kitchen is where the magic happens under a high powered hood and besides, my family likes the smell of roasted coffee throughout the house :D

chas · Post by **chas** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 2:14 pm

Roasting in my spa room with the windows in that room open and the door into the house shut does nothing to keep the smell out of the house. The smell seems to permeate from the basement to the 2nd floor in just a few minutes.

So long as you have that high powered hood so that the smoke detectors don't go off you should be golden. You'll just have to be sure that the exhaust fan on the HT doesn't blast the smoke out beyond the range of the vent fan. You may end up creating some Rube Goldberg exhaust system otherwise. Got any spare clothes dryer vent hose handy?

Post by **Niko** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 3:50 pm

I do have some spare (aluminum) hose laying around that I used for the iRoar until I installed the bigger kitchen hood.
Will this dryer hose work very well in addition to the kitchen hood?

Post by **bbqnut** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 3:58 pm

I could see possibly putting a small fan (like a computer fan or similar), at the one end of the hose near the leaky Hottop area, and the other end up by the hood.

The small fan draws rebel smoke back to the hood where it belongs.

That is just how I see it.

Post by **bbqnut** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 12:34 pm

My Hottop arrived this morning.

Needless to say, I decided to WFH.

Post by **Niko** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 1:00 pm

I couldn't imagine why you would "Roast From Home" today, oops sorry...I meant work from home

Post by **Niko** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 3:06 pm

C'mon man!
How did the 1st roast go?
Did ya' burn 'em, bake 'em or dumped 'em too early?
How smoky is it compared to the iRoar?

Post by **bbqnut** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 3:12 pm

Doing the second roast now. Using Lekempti (very chaffy).

I am just using the AUTO feature and stopping when they look/sound good. I will do about 3 roasts this way to season the roaster and get rid of any chemicals.

First roast went a little dark, because 1st and 2nd ran together pretty rapidly. I am just going to take all these beans and vacuum seal them and throw them in the freezer as my emergency backup stash.

Later today, I will try a couple of different programs on some of my more expensive beans.

Pretty smoky, probably a little more spread out than the iRoast, since the I roast has only one small place (the top), where the smoke can get out.

Post by **Niko** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 3:23 pm

They don't get any chaffier than Lekempti! I still have about 5lbs of that stuff left. thanks for bringing it up...couldn't think of a fruitier bean to season the roaster with myself.
Good idea on the seasoning, think I'll roast about 4 batches to give away

Post by **bbqnut** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 3:25 pm

Forgot to mention I am using a Variac + Kill-a-Watt.

I set it to average about 120VAC when roasting (about 123.5VAC at idle).

I think I may keep it this way, and just make my profile conform to a given voltage, rather than have to variables to worry about.

Post by **Niko** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 3:28 pm

bbqnut wrote: I am just using the AUTO feature and stopping when they look/sound good.

What is your total roast time on AUTO?
...and what's your ambient temp and humdity?
Are ya' taking it to 2nd crack?

Post by **bbqnut** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 3:47 pm

Not really worrying too much about the times and temps, but here it is:

Roast time is about 19-21 minutes (250 vs. 275 grams).

Temp is about 75.

Taking it into second (first roast about 30 seconds, second roast about 5 seconds).

The biggest trick with all roasters, is knowing how fast or slow the cooling is. The Hottop is quick, but it will take awhile to get it dialed in.

I am going to do a third roast and not let it get into 2nd at all. Then mix all 3 batches and seal and freeze. Then get busy on some profiles.

Post by **Niko** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 4:33 pm

All right!
So now tell me, how much better is it roasting with the Hottop? Do your neighbors love you already and do your ears NOT miss the iRooooar?
It certainly isn't too soon to tell the feel of the roaster compared to the wind tunnel....

I can't wait to taste the flavor difference.

Post by **bbqnut** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 4:41 pm

A few observations so far:

Chaff
A fair amount of Chaff is still left in the dump tray after cooling. A fair amount of chaff also remains up in the chute. The metal of the chaff collector tray stays very hot for a long even after cooling. I give them a D in this area.

Pre-Heat
The Pre-Heat cycle always happens before you can begin roasting, which I think adds to repeatability. However, if the roaster is above some magic number (I think around 170F), it will actually cool down first, then ramp up. This might be to cool down the electronics. I thought something was wrong with the unit, but it was fine.

Build Quality
It is cheaper than I thought on the surface (just about everything but the drum which seems solid). The protective grills make it even cheesier looking. I would say the GeneCafe is better at first glance in this regard. However, the track record of this roaster belies this observation. If anyone will break it, it would be me.

Overall
I feel like I really know what is going on at all times. Visually through the glass, or the sounds of first and second because it is pretty quiet. And of course the time countdown, and temp. is very nice and easy to read.

Can't comment on the flavor yet, that will be a few days.

I know I have a lot to learn, and will probably be doing another article (and possibly video), in the next month or two.

Chris

Post by **Niko** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 5:24 pm

Good.
Now hurry up and work on that profile for me so I can plug n' play in two days.

Glad you tried 275 grams, I'd like to stick with that kind of volume most of the time. Did you notice any issues with 275 grams vs. 250 besides the increase of roast time? Did the beans get good agitation?

Post by **Niko** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:19 am

I just checked the tracking on my shipment, supposed to arrive tomorrow (Fri) but for some odd reason it's on the vehicle for delivery....?
Can this be true?
...an actual "early" delivery... :?

I'm more confused than happy :?
I'm more excited about a vintage set of iLLy cups I won bidding on eBay last night :D ...by 2 pennies.

Post by **bbqnut** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 12:41 pm

Trying a programmed profile this morning.

Is it coming FedEx or UPS? If FedEx, they sometimes come a day early, UPS NEVER does (at least for me).

Post by **Niko** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 12:51 pm

bbqnut wrote:Trying a programmed profile this morning.

Is it coming FedEx or UPS? If FedEx, they sometimes come a day early, UPS NEVER does (at least for me).

It's FedEx.
...and hurry up with that profile :D

Post by **bbqnut** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 1:48 pm

Had to leave for work.

Sorry, but will try some profiles over the next few days. Might have to wait til the weekend to get some decent profiles to share.

Post by **Niko** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:36 pm

My Hottop arrived a day early.
I wish I had time to work dat' thang tonight but we'll see...

Maybe I'll just season it with the oldest, cheapest ass beans I can find to break it in.

chas · Post by **chas** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 8:18 pm

After all this time waiting, you can't find time to roast tonight? What is it, your anniversary?

Post by **Niko** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 8:52 pm

I just plugged it in...
it doesn't work.

The damn "empty chaff tray" icon appears and beeps like mad, I've removed and replaced it several times but nothing seems to get it out of that mode.

chas · Post by **chas** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:39 pm

You might find this document useful for reference:

http://www.hottopusa.com/upgrade_P_L3.pdf

The most likely problem is that the chaff tray isn't hitting the switch because it got bounced out of alignment in shipping. Alternately, the chaff tray cable may have gotten unplugged from the circuit board that is attached to the back of the control panel.

Worst case, since the board can also be used on units like mine that have no chaff tray safety switch, there is a jumper on that board that can be removed to disable the feature.

Popping the control panel out is a little scary the first time. I've done it about 4 times now and haven't trashed anything yet!

Post by **Niko** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:01 pm

Thanks Chas.
I eviscerated the little bugger and popped that jumper out like a bad mole.

Post by **Niko** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 12:26 am

Well, after removing that lawyer feature - I mean jumper, I ran two roasts on AUTO.
I slept at the wheel and made a Starbucks Blend, it was dark oily and nasty Full French, Youch! It hurt to over roast any beans like that (cheap or not).
I've never ever roasted that dark before, sorry but I was mesmerized by the sound (or lack of) compared to the iRoar.
The 2nd batch was much better, not past Full City but the roaster acted kind of strange.
The big brass screw is screwy, meaning it's kind of clunky how this adjusts the smoothness of the drum(?), I loosened it a touch and the drum wasn't scraping anymore (what a bucket!).
Another thing I really don't care for the chaffy roasts

The iRoar kicks the crap out of the Hottop for chaff collection, probably because the iRoar is so noisy it scares the chaff off!

So my my-of-box experience was awful.
My first roast almost resulted in the fire department showing up to cool the roast for me.

Oh, oh...almost forgot, the Hottop did something really weird on the 2nd roast. I know it has a preheat cycle before the 1st roast and a cool down before the 2nd but this was a little strange...it did its thing to cool down and then when it signaled to add beans, the beans were added and the roast started to count down and the heat was registering like normal but the roaster was doing nothing! It kept counting down and registering the roast in progress but it drum remained motionless for while and didn't start to kick on until a couple of minutes later! --is this normal??

Post by **EricC** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 3:02 am

Niko wrote:Well, after removing that lawyer feature - I mean jumper,

Hi Niko,

I may be well off target here, but, reading through the document linked to by Chas, the jumper should only be removed if you have one of the older Hottops without the chaff tray switch.

All of the later Hottops with the deeper chaff trays have the switch and should, the way i read it, have the jumper installed and all three connectors plugged in.

All the Best
Eric

Post by **Niko** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 3:09 am

Precisely, mine is the opposite - meaning it has the switch (unlike the older Hottops) but I figured it was broken so it prevented the unit from operating without removing the jumper. I tried countless times to trip the switch using different things but it simply didn't work.
I still need to get a hold of them to tell them the switch isn't working, but then again I might like it without the whiney beeps at start up :D

chas · Post by **chas** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 12:19 pm

I'm glad that fix worked for you. You'll probably be happier just leaving the jumper off. I don't have that feature plus my chaff tray is shallower. I don't need to be reminded to dump it nor have I burned the house down in 4 years of use.

As for the chaff, when I have a batch with too much chaff, I just step out the back door and shake the tray while gently blowing across the beans for a minute.

Shortly after purchasing the HT, I also bought the cheapest vacuum cleaner I could find - not battery operated. I use that to vacuum the chaff out of the tray and any loose stuff that escapes to the surrounding area. Sometimes I also use it to position above the tray while its cooling to suck the chaff off. With luck you can get most of the chaff without sucking up too many beans.

Post by **bbqnut** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 12:47 pm

I think the chaff removal is the weakest part of this roaster. But I have a big outdoor deck where I roast, so chaff is just not an issue for me.

I think the chaff tray is maybe too small (even the newer one), and as a result it gets filled up too easily.

Post by **Niko** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 1:40 pm

I'm still impressed with the Hottop, I can work around the chaff thingy with a vacuum as well (been doing it clean up the iRoar anyway).

While we're at it:
My Hottop was acting funky and since I had to disable the jumper, Michael at Hottop is sending me another brand new roaster to replace this one. I already have a tracking number!
Nice.

I assume I can play with this (now) demo model...? I guess, since he didn't tell me not to and I didn't ask

chas · Post by **chas** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 3:07 pm

Yeah, that other thing about the drum not rotating was not right at all. The drum should never stop turning unless the unit is off.

Post by **Niko** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 3:35 pm

Something didn't seem right about that, I'm new to the Hottop but that seems out of line for any roaster.
It was scraping the sides but I have a feeling that was the trapped (Yemen) beans hitting, nevertheless a drum should spin when roasting is in progress.

Post by **Weska** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 5:23 pm

NIko, sorry to see that the early days are so troublesome. The good news is that the support from Hottop is so forthcoming. With that kind of interest in the customer, it can't be bad to own one.

Post by **bbqnut** » Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:35 am

That is exactly how all vendors should respond, but unfortunately it is the exception rather than the rule.

Glad to hear you pursued a new roaster, and that Hottop responded.

Post by **Niko** » Sat Sep 29, 2007 2:31 am

Funny thing is that I didn't really pursue a new roaster quite yet...
it went like this; wrote an email to Russ (Coffee Bean Corral) and he in turn forwarded it to Michael (Hottop) who immediately writes an email back to me. He apologized and minutes later another email followed with a tracking number for a brand new roaster on the way.
Man these two guys are fast!

...and Michael sent the replacement roaster via 3-day air :P

I am so glad I did business with Russ and the great customer service that followed is remarkable.

Post by **bbqnut** » Sat Sep 29, 2007 7:18 pm

So I have my first profile, which seems to work well for Lekempti and Brazil. I stopped them both a few seconds in to 2nd crack.

For the Lekempti First crack was hit around 13:30, and I killed it with 2 minutes left). So 2:30 between first and second, with an overall roast time of 16:00 minutes.

For the Brazil Daterra Yellow Bourbon First crack was hit around 14:00, and I killed it with 1 minute left). So 3:00 between first and second, with an overall roast time of 17:00 minutes.

I used a Variac (to control voltage) and Kill-a-Watt (to monitor voltage), so that it was at 120VAC with the heating element on (~123VAC at idle).

The flavor results will take a few days, but I am pretty stoked on the

I will get an excel attachment up once I get more profiles and notes.

Sg Temp Time1 Time2 Fan
0 075 0:00 00:00 0
1 235 2:00 02:00 0
2 295 2:00 04:00 0
3 320 1:00 05:00 1
4 340 1:00 06:00 1
5 360 3:00 09:00 2
6 380 3:00 12:00 2
7 400 3:00 15:00 3
8 420 3:00 18:00 3

Post by **EricC** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 3:36 am

Niko wrote: ...and Michael sent the replacement roaster via 3-day air :P

Excellent outcome Niko, that first machine you received just did not sound right.

Best Regards
Eric

Post by **Niko** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 4:20 am

Yeah, that's what I figured after the 2nd roast on it (and it was the last).
I was asked to pack it up whenever I get some time so they (Hottop) can have a FedEx driver pick it up. I immediately packed it up the next evening even though I was tempted to roast a few more batches over the weekend but I didn't want to push any more bad luck with it.
...and besides, Michael at Hottop was so nice that I felt guilty if I put any more use on it.
I had to listen to the iRoar earlier today, my ears were crying

Post by **Mr.Ken** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 4:40 pm

Niko,

I'm glad your HotTop issues will be resolved. I'm coming up on one year and 115 runs on the HotTop with no problems. Dump that chaff tray each time. Before a run, blow through the top with the tray out to get the majority of the chaff out. Sand the edges of the chaff tray before you get cut (you will).

The only issues I can remember reading about came from people making consecutive runs on the same day. If you do, let it cool completely - maybe 2 hours to get everything back to room temperature before starting the next run in order to get consistent roasting results.

Happy Roasting!

Post by **bbqnut** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 5:12 pm

Mr.Ken wrote:Niko,
The only issues I can remember reading about came from people making consecutive runs on the same day. If you do, let it cool completely - maybe 2 hours to get everything back to room temperature before starting the next run in order to get consistent roasting results.

The KN-8828P has an interesting feature. While it does have the mandatory warm up phase to (174F ?), it also will not begin the warm-up phase until it has gotten below (164F ?).

For example, if you start a roast, and the machine is at 190F, it will go all the way down to 164F, then back up to 174F, then begin roasting.

I would think this keeps things pretty consistent.

Post by **Niko** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 2:28 am

I'm happy to report that the replacement roaster is fantastic. This one is nothing like the first one...the safety switch really sticks out so it hits the chaff tray to activate it. Only funny thing is that it never prompts me to empty it? :? :? :?
I'm beginning to think they disabled this function incase it gives me trouble in the future?
...maybe?

Does yours prompt you to remove the chaff tray right at start up, Chris?
'cause this one sure doesn't, not that I mind. As a matter of fact, I have yet to see that alert.

I only had time to do one roast and I think this is going to be a match made in heaven :D :P My ears no longer hurt and I actually got to enjoy roasting. I dumped the beans 15 seconds into active 2nd and I ended up with a gorgeous looking roast.

Post by **bbqnut** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 11:35 am

I think the chaff reminder will come the next time you try to do a roast. Not 100% sure though. You might want to verify if the jumper is really out or not. Otherwise you might have another dud.

Post by **Niko** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 12:31 pm

I can live without the jumper in it, but I really hope this isn't another dud! Even after the roast, it didn't remind me empty the chaff tray simply because it shuts itself off right after the cooling is complete. I turned it back on right after and it did not prompt me to empty the chaff tray, maybe because I didn't dial anything in to start another roast...? Maybe?

Post by **bbqnut** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 3:33 pm

I don't think mine shuts off after a roast, but I have to check.

I would say if yours does not work according to the manual, you need to get yet another unit. You don't want to have any questions in your mind about this thing being trouble free.

Post by **Niko** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 3:48 pm

What I meant by shutting OFF is that it display nothing when it's done...meaning it shuts OFF but the power button is lit and waiting on standby.
...or something like that, I'll have to do another roast to see.

It seems that everything functions pretty normal, I didn't try another roast to see if that chaff tray switch will prompt me to empty it, the true test would be to do a back to back roast. Is this when you get prompted to empty the tray, on back to back roasts and/or when you first turn it ON?

Post by **bbqnut** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 3:51 pm

This is from the manual:

The Chaff tray has a safety switch that will not allow the operation of the roaster unless the chaff tray has been emptied after a roast. Even is the machine is unplugged the tray still needs to be removed for emptying before operation. An animation of the chaff tray appears in the message Center to remind you.

I would assume after one roast, the next roast will not proceed until you take the tray out and put it back in (under any circumstances - even unplugging).

But if they pulled the jumper at the factory, then you will never get a prompt. I actually kind of like the prompt - sometimes I would forget to clean my i-Roast, and that was bad.

Post by **Niko** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 4:56 pm

Just spoke with Michael, he said everything sounds normal from what I emailed and explained to him over the phone. Since I haven't gone into a 2nd roast (back to back) yet, we can't be certain this machine is faulty. I'll take his word for it, and besides he's good on his word that if anything else is wrong he'll take care it.
So for now, I'll assume the roaster is OK and I'll roast some back to back tonight.

Post by **Niko** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 9:45 pm

Everything seems A-OKay

I did the 2nd roast ever on it, some Brazil this time and the chaff tray switch seems to work just dandy. I think I was just mentally challenged yesterday when I roasted the 1st time, I must've yanked the chaff tray out immediately following the roast, therefor, the machine didn't chime for it to be removed causing me to (somewhat) panic...oh well, that's what happens when I'm under-caffeinated.

Damn, I slightly over-roasted this batch by about 10 seconds! Wish it were a slight hair lighter.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have a chaff tray to empty.
...and this time I won't burn myself!
I guess that's what the gloves are for, Chris :D

Post by **Niko** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 12:06 am

After seeing all the crappy videos of the Hottop on the web, I decided to do my own. I'm not saying that mine is better....it's short and to the point, you see drum spin, see drum go, see drum roast beans, see drum crack the beans and dump the beans all in well under 2 minutes.
Get your popcorn and crank up the sound.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmhmY1nNaBo

Post by **Weska** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 4:21 pm

That's a nice video. Almost a quickie tutorial on roasting. Wish I had a similar cooling arrangement on my Gene, but nothing has everything.

Post by **Niko** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 4:47 pm

No, can't have everything...
But something inside me still wants a Gene!
There's no really good videos on the web showing that nice roaster either. I wish I had access to one so I can shoot a nice clear video clip of it in action as well.
Maybe I should fly out to Moscow for a quick 2 minute video :P

I shot that (Hottop) clip so other people can look up close what that machine does, it was shot with that in mind as if I was shopping for it all over again :? if that makes any sense, in other words look folks

you're not going to go deaf using this roaster and the loudest thing you hear is the overhead fan from the kitchen hood. Also look at all the smoke but a decent kitchen hood will eliminate about 99% of it,

shocking but true the Hottop produces gallons more smoke than my iRoar2 but it doesn't smoke up the house any more so.

So how are you and the Gene getting along, Wes?
Any nice stories of how you almost burned a batch or two?

How is the flavor difference for you since using the Gene?

Post by **bbqnut** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 4:52 pm

So any conclusions on the flavor so far?

All mine (which looked great), were not so great for espresso or drip. They were neither bright, nor sweet & complex.

Of course I have only used one profile, so this weekend I am going to try out a couple more profiles.

I also have a bunch of stuff to do to the S1 internally, so it will be a few days before I know the results.

Post by **Niko** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 5:11 pm

My shots have been crap so far...
The again the roast was only 24hrs old, need a couple of more days before I can make any judgement on that roast alone (and it's only the 1st one) so I wouldn't give that one much credit.

Post by **Niko** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 6:49 pm

OK, here's an update on flavor so far....

24 hrs later the shots were channeling more than usual and when I did manage to get an un-channeled shot, it sucked - no body, very thin road tarry kind of flavor. Made me think of busting out the iRoar again

48 hrs later, WHOLE DIFFERENT WORLD...I never had a shot like this out of that blasted iRoar. As a matter of fact, I never had a shot like this ever at home from home roasted coffee. A deep mammoth-like body is slowly developing.

Life is good... :P

Post by **bbqnut** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 6:51 pm

Tell us what beans you are using, and maybe the profile.

Post by **Niko** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 6:59 pm

I was seasoning the drum, so there's no profile! I was using AUTO mode

I still can't believe how sweet the shot was...I almost didn't live to tell about it. I pulled it 35 minutes ago and it still lingers.

The bean is Brazil Fazenda Jacaranda, only the most amazing bean this season for me. I think you can sprinkle grass clippings in it and it would still taste good.

If it helps, I dialed in 19:30 minutes on AUTO and cut the roast about 30 seconds into active second, sorry I didn't keep an eye on anything else since I had the camera rolling, etc.. I thought it was a slight touch on the dark side but it came beautifully now that I look at it in the valved bag, there's hardly any oil droplets and it smells sweet and even better ground and the cup was to die for.

chas · Post by **chas** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 3:05 pm

OK, I'm convinced. I just bought 10lbs of Brazil Fazenda Jacaranda from Ono Beano aka Russ at CBC.

Post by **Niko** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 3:15 pm

You will NOT be disappointed, Chas!
Trust me on this one

.

And congratulations on your 500th post!
I've been waiting for days

Post by **Niko** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:03 pm

My Variac should arrive sometime before midnight since UPS is delivering.
I've had a Kill A Watt for quite sometime now, been using it to monitor power usage on my computers. I can't wait for the next roasting session to try them both.

Post by **bbqnut** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:08 pm

Niko wrote:My Variac should arrive sometime before midnight since UPS is delivering.
I've had a Kill A Watt for quite sometime now, been using it to monitor power usage on my computers. I can't wait for the next roasting session to try them both.

All I can say is: I should have bought a Variac years ago.

Just make sure that you check it on every roast. I usually adjust in the first segment when the heating element kicks on. I like mine to read ~120 with heating element on (which usually equates to ~123 at idle).

Post by **Niko** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:13 pm

The voltage in my house averages around 124V and when the Hottop runs it hangs around the 120 mark, the VARIAC should make it more steady.

Post by **bbqnut** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:50 pm

Niko wrote:The voltage in my house averages around 124V and when the Hottop runs it hangs around the 120 mark, the VARIAC should make it more steady.

You have the opposite problem of most people.

For me, the voltage is slightly on the low side, but more of a problem is fluctuation.

Lately it goes between about 111-116VAC, and in the summer, can be as low as 109.

Post by **Niko** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 10:01 pm

The VARIAC seems a little jumpy, I guess that's normal for it to stay within 1 volt...boy is it a smelly thing once I removed it from the package.
According to the Kill A Watt, it dances a little but not much.
And yes, the voltage is at least 124 in this joint, I'm actually dropping it so the Hottop will roast at 120.
Without the VARIAC, the Kill A Watt reads 121-122 while roasting at full heat. Every volt counts for repeatability :P

Post by **coffeeowl** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 2:59 pm

Niko, it's funny how I continue my coffee journey... somehow I stated the question you began this thread with to myself.
Not now, but in (hopefully not very long) future I will buy myself a roaster and it will be rather Gene Cafe (I'm about 75% sure)
Oh well, my friends would probably consider me being crazy right now after I spend 12000PLN on espresso machine and a grinder

:)

Post by **Niko** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 3:29 pm

That's great!
The thread is about the Gene Cafe or the Hottop, so there's no problem continuing to talk about both of them.
Weska bought the Gene and several of us have Hottops so either way you can't go wrong...

75% sure, huh? - That sounds like you're steering towards Gene Avenue :D

Post by **Niko** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 3:44 pm

chas wrote:OK, I'm convinced. I just bought 10lbs of Brazil Fazenda Jacaranda from Ono Beano aka Russ at CBC.

Did ya' try the beans yet?

Post by **Weska** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 3:47 pm

Really, coffeeowl, all of our friends--except the ones we find here--think we are crazy. It's clear already that you aren't one to worry about that!

Gene or Hottop is probably not so important. (Gene is certainly a worthy specimen. Hottop clearly beats it on cooling and maybe elsewhere in some of its incarnations.) What is important is to have fresh coffee.

That means coffee roasted no more than a handful of days before you use it. Packaged coffees even from the very best sources won't hold up very well compared to one's own--no doubt poorly controlled and wretchedly developed--home roasts. Freshness counts for a very great deal in cofffee, as in bread and beer. If you have a good roaster to buy fresh coffee from, there is not much need to roast. Otherwise, you should keep a roasting machine of some sort--any of many--in your sights.

Post by **coffeeowl** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:04 pm

yea I know - please don't laugh: even a preground coffee is better right out of a vacuum pack then the next day :-)))
actually, I think roasting at home can be lots of fun, I really enjoy experimenting and looking (and the GeneCafe allows looking)
And of course there's no fresh rosted coffee source in Poland. Maybe CoffeeHaeven has it fresh, but I doubt, they don't sell that amounts to have it fresh. (CH is a network of coffee bars along Eastern Europe, they serve it in plastic cups and I've seen some unusual tampings at the place though I'm not a very regular customer. But - their baristas won 1st prizes in Polish Barista's Competitions twice and this year they took all first 4 places)

Post by **coffeeowl** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 1:52 pm

I found another roaster - Behmor. It looks like a good alternative for both discussed here.
Can someone enlighten and advice, please... now I'm going on fifty-fifty towards Gene and Behmor (definitely I'm a ColdTop one :-)

Post by **Niko** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 2:19 pm

Chris should chime in about that one soon...

Let's put it this way, he bought the Hottop.

Post by **coffeeowl** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 4:27 pm

as far as I undestand, unfortunately the Behmor has some troubles hitting the markets.
But you know what? I'm getting back to the GeneCafe idea, after a little research on roasters. However I have some time to decide, looks like it will be my first roaster (and maybe the last too :P

Post by **coffeeowl** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 6:21 pm

Niko,

how is the cooling on Hottop done? I know it ejects the beans onto a sort of plate, but is there any air going through the holes in the plate or is it some other way?
I'm asking because of the cooling problems with Gene - if I ever buy it I will have to do emergency stop and eject the beans onto some cooling tray. Maybe I can buy a cooling tray (or plate)?

OK. I go sleeping. Tomorrow is going to be my order day for LaSpaziale and Mazzer

Edit: typos

Post by **Niko** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 6:50 pm

The Hottop has the most amazing cooling I've ever seen, there's a fan below the cooling tray and makes the beans cool to the touch in just a few minutes.

chas · Post by **chas** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 8:30 pm

Niko wrote:
chas wrote:OK, I'm convinced. I just bought 10lbs of Brazil Fazenda Jacaranda from Ono Beano aka Russ at CBC.
Did ya' try the beans yet?

No but it will be a bit sooner now. I roasted one last batch to use up some old stuff and burned the crap out of it. Even Starbucks wouldn't have used it. So I'll be roasted the first batch as soon as HT cools down. Now if I can just get the smell out of the house.

Post by **Niko** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 8:49 pm

Let me know what you think about that Brazil after a couple of roasts.

I'm finally playing around with profiles, been visiting some other sites and took notes and made some tweaks here and there and I'm still convinced that the factory Hottop profiles kicks all of their butts.
Not sure why...I'm trying to get to the bottom of this! :?
All the roasts out of the Hottop so far have been really good for me, the AUTO mode was great for seasoning the drum and practice on my part. The next few were done using the factory "0" profile. The last one was a custom one but for some reason that 17:20 (factory) one is faster (I eject with about 30 sec left), the coffee has a better dry fragrance out of the bag. The longer roasts aren't as fragrant, I'm talking a solid 19 minute roast that AUTO ejected just as it was entering 2nd crack, active (rapid) 2nd never got under way so it was still a nice Full City when you look at this particular bean.

What is an ideal TOTAL roast time that you aim for on the Hottop for espresso? I know everyone has their own particular tastes but I'm curious what other Hottop users aim for time-wise.

Post by **Weska** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 3:21 pm

OK guys, in fairness to the Gene, it cools slowly--but conveniently. I can't taste any immense difference because of the slow cooling. After all, that is masked by a number of other variables in the roast and afterwards.

I've decided that the most convenient cooling is to use the Gene's own lengthy cycle. It takes up to 10 minutes to bring the roast down to a barely-warm-to-the-hand 60 degrees C.

I tried the quick cool to 100 degrees C. I tried the emergency stop and toss method. Meant I was tossing around a lot of beans that were still throwing off major smoke. I also felt that I was leaving the heating element hotter than it could be if I used the intended cooling cycle.

I've been using one batch of SM Classic Italian through all of this, and I've never been unhappy with the result whicheverway I've approached cooling. So, I've concluded that I will do the easy, popular thing and let the Gene go its own way. Harm is not very detectable on my tongue, and the gain in convenience is undeniable.

I admit that the urge to pull more air through during cooling or to put a saucer of ice cubes under the air intake may yet overcome me.

However, very nice coffee comes out of the Gene no matter how you choose to cool. You don't have to feel obliged to do early dumps.

Post by **Niko** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 3:33 pm

On the Gene I'd be doing the same thing, Wes. Just let the machine's cooling cycle take care of business. Rapid cooling seems not good either if it's too rapid, some roaster once stated that if it's too fast, the beans tend to re-crack (and not for good reasons).
:? Yeah, I know....it left my head scratching too.

Post by **coffeeowl** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 8:46 pm

I just read the 'secret blend' topic...
wow!
then I searched for some of the beans in the google, all those tastes... wow!
Ten years ago I was thinking that the only so tasty experience is available with cigars. That's amazing!
Can you tell me the price of such coffee?
On HB roast forum someone stated, that one should have the opportunity to taste some great coffees before going into home roasting. I'd love to...

To the Gene cooling: from my reading of some sweetmarias' artictles it looks like it's enough to put the beans into big colander and use your arm's motion for cooling in a few minutes. To me it looks better then leaving the beans in the drum and waiting for it to cool

Post by **bbqnut** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 11:31 pm

Well, a few things.

First regarding the Behmor. I think for the price, it is a nice roaster. I mean at $300 or less, it does a lot. I think I could give it to my grandmother, and she could get some decent coffee out of it.

And yes I bought a Hottop, but at 3X the price! Mainly the geek in me that wanted all that programmability. Here are my articles on the Behmor, in case you missed them:

http://www.ineedcoffee.com/07/behmor1600/

http://www.ineedcoffee.com/07/behmor-tutorial/

And on to the GeneCafe, which I had the pleasure of owning. I never really had a problem with it's normal cooling cycle, but instead the ability to get it hot enough, quick enough. In the end, I could never really get the GeneCafe gave me a complex well-rounded roast, nor a bright roast. So after many, many batches and "profiles", I sold it.

The jury is still out on the Hottop, but I think between the I-Roast 2 and Hottop, I am hoping I will have something that should keep me happy for a few years.

chas · Post by **chas** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:13 am

Ever heard about this roaster?

http://www.williamsbrewing.com/BRAVI_DR ... 593C91.cfm

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