Plumbing query

[chrisd]

Hello all.

So, a little closer to the S1 dream. New flat doesn't have suitable space for plumbing-in on the kitchen counter, but I could put a dedicated S1 table next to the boiler and run a fresh water line off of there instead.

My question is about filtering/softening systems, which obviously I'd need to cope with the evil London water. What systems (preferably available in the UK) do Vivaldi owners use? And how bulky are they? My current thinking is to mount the various parts inside one of these plastic boxes (http://www.reallyusefulproducts.co.uk/u ... ge_rub.php) that could fit on the shelf underneath the table (something like this perhaps: http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/products/70011793, maybe with the middle shelf removed for some extra space.

Does that sound feasible? Part of me still wonders whether the Mini would be a more sensible choice, but the convenience of plumbed as well as the noise difference (?) between the vibe and rotary pumps gives me pause. Plus I'd still need a supply of decent water to fill the Mini's tank, and I'm thinking a Brita jug would be woefully inadequate!

Chris

[JohnB]

Your least expensive option would be to try & round up the various pieces to create a generic filter system like this one:
http://www.chriscoffee.com/products/hom ... enersystem Doubt you'd fit it into one of those boxes though.

[MDL]

As John says, the least expensive way to go is to buy generic components and assemble a simple system using an ion exchange cartridge and a carbon filter cartridge. However, if space is more important to you there are single cartridge units that combine the two functions. The ones I have seen are long and narrow (compared to the standard size generic cartridges). In addition they are much more expensive. You can see combined systems from Everpure on the EspressoParts web site.

You could mount the filtration/treatment system on the back of your cabinet; it is only about 5 inches deep after assembly; clearly you need to be able to get to it in order to change cartridges, but after assembly and during use it would only push your cabinet out a little over the 5 inches.

[jbb]

I also have a pretty tight under-cabinet space, and I went with the standard CC softener/charcoal cartridge system. I ended up mounting the cartridge housings on a board that I hang from the underside of the cabinet top using eye hooks. Since its up high it effectively does not take up much of the useful space, and it actually makes it very easy to remove for cartridge changing, etc.

question: does anybody know what type of store carries the 10 inch softener cartridges? I can't find them in the big US box stores like Lowe's and Home Despot. I've just been getting them on line but would be nice not to be able to pick them up locally and not have to deal with shipping.

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[JohnB]

question: does anybody know what type of store carries the 10 inch softener cartridges? I can't find them in the big US box stores like Lowe's and Home Despot. I've just been getting them on line but would be nice not to be able to pick them up locally and not have to deal with shipping.

It would but I haven't found them anywhere except the on line retailers.

[JohnB]

delete me

[JohnB]

question: does anybody know what type of store carries the 10 inch softener cartridges? I can't find them in the big US box stores like Lowe's and Home Despot. I've just been getting them on line but would be nice not to be able to pick them up locally and not have to deal with shipping.

It would but I haven't found them anywhere except the on line retailers.

[MDL]

Home Depot has carbon cartridges but I have ordered my softener cartridges (and carbon at the same time) from Water Anywher http://www.wateranywhere.com/
They have really reasonable prices but shipping is high on small orders. They also sell all of the housings, tubing, etc. necessary to put together a generic system for almost nothing.

[chrisd]

Thanks for the help, guys. As far as I can tell, there isn't a CC-equivalent in the UK, offering a generic system; the UK espresso retailers seem to prefer the all-in-one cartridges. There look to be a few generic-style options similar to CC's (most just filter, not soften) on this page: http://is.gd/CUkJ44.

Alternatively there's this: http://is.gd/lBfoax which promises to do both filtration and softening in one, though the prices seem high. I'm having trouble conceptualising 3000+ litres of water, however! How much water do people usually go through in an average week/month with their S1?!

Chris

[MDL]

I did a Google search for softeners in the UK and immediately found this site:
http://www.silverlineuk.co.uk/category. ... ge_filters
They have all of the generic materials but the prices seem very high; I have not looked for additional sites in the UK or Europe but I have to imagine that there are dealers that sell the components more reasonably. I suggest that you check with WaterAnywhere (link in my earlier post) and see what international shipping would cost.

I have no idea how much water I go through. I can tell you that the water in San Diego is quite hard and I change my cartridges every year (my system was purchased from CC with my Vivaldi and now uses the generic cartridges that I referred to earlier). The quality of my water is consistent throughout that year (as checked using SofCheck water hardness test strips).

[chrisd]

Thanks MDL! Part of the problem will inevitably be pricing in the UK - we pay a lot more than you guys do, unfortunately - so I'll have to shop around as well as find out how much importing stuff from WaterAnywhere might be. Part of me does wonder whether the single-cartridge units might be a more sensible idea, given my space restraints and the convenience. Wouldn't hurt the spousal-approval-factor either!

Chris

[MDL]

The single cartridge systems are perfectly fine; they just have a premium price for the convenience and have a lower capacity compared to the generic 10" cartridges. There is no free lunch and you have to compare all of the options and make a decision that suits your particular needs and constraints.

The web is your friend; search for vendors that are local and compare prices and options.

Good luck...

[JohnB]

I must use more water then MDL as my softener cartridges start to drop off after 6 months & are shot by 8 months.

[MDL]

I should have said that I live alone so it is just me and any guests.

[jbb]

The life span of the cartridge will also be influenced to a large extent by the hardness of the water. We're at ~390 TDS in Riverside, wonder if its about the same in San Diego. Anyway, mine started dropping off around 6 months. Has anyone tried recharging the cartridge?

JohnB, I thought I remember reading you were using RO water with mixing tap back in to where you wanted it.

[JohnB]

JohnB, I thought I remember reading you were using RO water with mixing tap back in to where you wanted it.

I use softened well water with a mixing valve to add hard (5-7 grains) water back in so I can control the hardness. After 6 months of use I have to readjust the mix every couple weeks as the softener cartridge gets weaker. 390 TDS is brutal, mine is 230 TDS before & after softening as the cartridge has no effect on TDS levels. What is the hardness of your water?

[JonF]

Greetings! I just wanted to post an option that you might not have thought of. We have new granite counters, and really did not want to drill through them. What I did was just go into the sheetrock just above the backsplash and then come back out in the cabinet at just under the countertop. So I go into the wall, down about 8 inches, and then back out. Unlike countertops, sheetrock (or plaster) walls are really easy to fill in and paint at a later date.

[Since I live in a climate with REALLY cold winters, I actually placed some plastic pluming tubing in the wall to assure an airspace at close to room temperature. Then I fed the braided stainless water feed hose from the Vivaldi through the plastic.]

But the mini is a super option too!

[chrisd]

Thanks JonF! Unfortunately rather than low-level tiling, the kitchen has full glass panels covering counter to ceiling. Looks great (a nice rich red, which might go quite well with a red S1!) but not something I could drill through!

According to the water supplier, what comes out of the tap is around 275.5 ppm hardness.

Chris

[JohnB]

275.5ppm hardness is 16grains & extremely hard water if that figure is accurate. You want to get it down to 3 grains or under to control scale. If you don't mind descaling every 6 months or so water around the 5 grain level would taste better.