How to plumb in S1

[forest]

Hello everybody.
My previous attempts at making espresso have all failed. I used a Gaggia classic.
Also I never appreciated the "alchemy" involved in making a decent cup.
Not that the coffee outlets do much better.... The only decent cup I've had has been at monmouth coffee.
I would like to buy an S1 but I cannot make any holes in the kitchen worktop. I came across a short article somewhere about using a bottle/flojet/accumulator set up.
Can anyone explain what this is.
Also, would I need to use a water softner or filter?
Thanks
Gary

[MichaelN]

Have you considered the S1 Mini? It has an integrated water resevoir. Otherwise the exact same machine and you'll be up and running almost as fast as you can unpack it and read the manual.

[forest]

Hello Michael.
Thanks for your comment.
I have been thinking of the mini. Is it the same as the S1 except for the reservoir?
Somehow I felt the S1 was better.
If I went with the mini should I use tap water or bottled water?
Thanks

[oton]

Hi forest. You should see the Chris video about the S1 Vivaldi & S1 Mini Vivaldi.

http://vimeo.com/9559130

[Endo]

I have been thinking of the mini. Is it the same as the S1 except for the reservoir?
Somehow I felt the S1 was better.

Pretty much the same machine. The S1 uses a more expensive rotary pump (although this makes no difference in taste). Other differences are very minor.

If I went with the mini should I use tap water or bottled water?

You can use tap water as long as your water is not too hard.

[Endo]

My previous attempts at making espresso have all failed. I used a Gaggia classic.
Also I never appreciated the "alchemy" involved in making a decent cup.

If you can't make good espresso with a Gaggia Classic (and don't enjoy the technique involved in using a semi-auto machine), then let me be very, very clear.....you are wasting your money on a S1!

The machine doesn't make good espresso, that's the job of the user (Barista).

[MichaelN]

Hello everybody. My previous attempts at making espresso have all failed. I used a Gaggia classic.

What beans were you using? Something that I learned the hard way a couple of weeks ago as a new S1 owner is the classic: "Garbage in, garbage out". You can have the most expensive machine out there but unless you have fresh beans, no more than two weeks off roast otherwise you'll be fighting a losing battle.

Oton provided an excellent suggestion in watching that video from Chris' Coffee that describes the differences between the two. I would say that the only noticeable advantage of the S1 over the Mini S1 is that the S1 has a much larger steam boiler which will come in handy if your Significant Other is a tea drinker like mine. It has lots of additional hot water capacity over the Mini S1. I also prefer the dial for the steam control instead of the toggle arm on the Mini for controlling steam output while frothing; but that is just personal preference. Both of those differences are trivial compared to your larger plumbing related issue; which pretty much necessitates that you get the Mini.

Michael

[MichaelN]

If I went with the mini should I use tap water or bottled water?

What you end up doing will depend on the nature of the water in your area. Is your tap water from a well or through a municipal system? Is the water hard or soft? Chlorinated? This is another area where the Mini S1 has an advantage over the S1. Not only can you have more control over the water that you fill your reservoir with; it is also easier to descale the insides. Do a search in this forum on cleaning and descaling and notice the enviably simple and elegant procedure highlighted by Endo on his Mini S1 vs. the complicated and meticulous open heart surgery performed by JohnB on his S1.

As an example, my neighbour uses 1/2 local tap water filtered through a Brita filter and 1/2 distilled bottled water in his reservoir machine. Based on the chemistry of our municipal water this made the perfect combination for both taste and minimizing scale build up inside the machine. But this of course will vary based on your water source.

Cheers;
Michael

[Endo]

The descale I highlighted on my Mini I would regard as a "preventative descale". This combined with keeping your water hardness below 50ppm (3 grains), is your best defense against scale. That said, if you want to get the absolute best taste from your espresso, a harder water of 150ppm is the only way (but you must accept the fact you will need to open your boilers like JohnB described).

Also, the descale JohnB highlighted is about the ony way to remove serious scale once it has built up (descale solution won't do much).

Just to be clear as well, a Brita doesn't lower your water hardness much. When I tested it I got a 20 to 30 ppm reduction for about 2 weeks. After that, nothing.

Do you think we scared Forest away with all the Alchemy talk? "Run Forest, Run!"!

[forest]

Thanks for your answers
You have given me a lot to think about.
Time for a jog

[Endo]

I came across a short article somewhere about using a bottle/flojet/accumulator set up.
Can anyone explain what this is.
Also, would I need to use a water softner or filter?

Sorry, we didn't answer this part it seems.

A Flojet is simply a little 110V pump box that goes into a 19L water jug and allows you to run a "plumbed in only" machine without having to hook it up to your home plumbing (this is how they run all the big espresso machines at the trade shows).

Unless you want the 19L jug on your counter, you still need to drill a hole in the counter to get the water line up to the machine.

It has no water softener built in, but most people usually just fill the jugs with RO or demineralized water.

I strongly considered this setup with the S1. But when the Mini became available (and at $250 cheaper price than the S1), I decide to simply go with the Mini. Seems about 60% of the Vivaldi owners prefer the convenience of the Mini over the regular S1.

[MichaelN]

The descale I highlighted on my Mini I would regard as a "preventative descale". This combined with keeping your water hardness below 50ppm (3 grains), is your best defense against scale.

I just had my water hardness tested and I'm getting 6 grains which I'd like to reduce in order to minimze scale and maintenance.

I've been looking at this softening resin filter from Wateranywhere.com: http://www.wateranywhere.com/Water_Filt ... e0db35aed1
which I would follow with this extruded activated carbon filter: http://www.wateranywhere.com/Water_Filt ... 0154b43352.

Has anyone here recently purchased from this company? I have attempted to reach their customer service department with no luck. They don't list their address on their website, their only "Contact Us" option is email or phone. When I call that phone number the recording tells you to visit their website and to contact them by email. I tried emailing, but no reply so far. Normally I'd not do business online with a company like this; however they have what I want at really really cheap prices.

Thanks;
Michael

[MDL]

I have done business with WaterAnywhere (I think that I may have been the first person to introduce them to this group about 3 years ago). They are in Southern CA and I have always been able to call them and get answers to my questions.

The prices are highly competitive although shipping costs are high on small orders. If you order a couple of sets of cartidges the shipping is less of a burden and the savings relative to other sources is great.

Good luck,
Mark

[MDL]

I have always used this 10 micron carbon cartridge that only costs $7.00.
http://www.wateranywhere.com/Water_Filt ... 0154b43352

[MichaelN]

The prices are highly competitive although shipping costs are high on small orders.

Thanks for the feedback Mark; I placed my order just now. I too noticed the high shipping charges; especially for shipments into Canada. Fortunately I have a family member that lives in the USA and I can have the items shipped to his address for less than half the amount, not to mention saving on brokerage fees and duties (if any).

I have always used this 10 micron carbon cartridge that only costs $7.00.
http://www.wateranywhere.com/Water_Filt ... 0154b43352

I ordered one of those as well, though I intend to use it further upstream to do the whole house. I am thinking that it may replace the one that I currently buy from Home Depot for about 50% more. The one that I mentioned earlier was appealing due to the coconut shell carbon that "makes the water taste sweeter". I thought I'd give it a try; but I will have the one that you suggested as backup just in case my plan fails.

Thanks;
Michael

[MDL]

If you have the opportunity to compare the taste between the two carbon cartridges I would be interested in hearing your opinions. The few dollars would be worth it if the taste is improved.
Good luck,
Mark

[MichaelN]

I will certainly do that Mark. It will be in a couple of weeks, as the draw back to having it shipped to my brother's in Ohio is that I have to wait for another relative to visit them in order for them to bring it back across the border for me.

I am actually using a filter like that right now with the coconut shell carbon; however it is without the softener. Therefore I may not notice much of a difference at first, until I switch over to the regular carbon filter.

Once that is done, I'll then be considering my options for plumbing in some make-shift drain kit. Luckily there is lots of great advice and pictures about this in other threads.

I love this forum!

Michael

[Endo]

You might want to consider a forwarding service near the border like the one I use:

http://www.freeportforwarding.com/

It's a couple of minutes inside the US border. You get Chris Coffee (or whoever) to ship to them. They hold it. I drive there in less than 1 hr from Montreal to pick up my stuff whenever I want. Cost is less than $5.

Much less hassle and no silly Fedex fees.

I'm sure Ontario has something similar.

[MichaelN]

You might want to consider a forwarding service near the border like the one I use:
http://www.freeportforwarding.com Cost is less than $5.

An excellent suggestion that I will definitely consider for next time. At $5.00 that is cheaper than having my brother pull what he wants from my shipment prior to the 2nd leg of its journey, and the bottle of wine that I usually give to the family member that packed it home for me.

[MichaelN]

If you have the opportunity to compare the taste between the two carbon cartridges I would be interested in hearing your opinions. The few dollars would be worth it if the taste is improved.

I have them installed now and frankly I can't tell the difference in taste between the two carbon filters. I'll probably keep buying the more expensive coconut shell MX one; for the sake of a couple of dollars I feel more confident that it will better protect my machine. Interestingly the packaging on the cheaper carbon filter states that it too is made from coconut shells, just that it only filters down to 10 microns, while the more expensive one filters down to 2 microns.

I can however taste the difference between using the water softening cartridge and not using it. I need a better test kit, but roughly my water is slightly over 100 ppm and after running through this cartridge goes down to 50'ish ppm. I'm going to flush more water through it tomorrow and do a few more taste tests drinking the water straight and also tasting it in a shot of espresso.

Michael