Back flush procedure

[dgasmd]

I must be either the dumbest person there is or have some major reading comprehension issues. I simply can't figure out how to do this. I know it is ridiculously simple, but can someone tell me how to assemble things? Where and how do I put the little rubber disc? Does it go inside the basket with the little tip up and detergent on top? Pictures would be fantastic. Thanks in advance!!

[az erik]

I must be either the dumbest person there is or have some major reading comprehension issues. I simply can't figure out how to do this. I know it is ridiculously simple, but can someone tell me how to assemble things? Where and how do I put the little rubber disc? Does it go inside the basket with the little tip up and detergent on top? Pictures would be fantastic. Thanks in advance!!

Exactly what you wrote. Rubber in the basket, tip up, detergent (though I wouldn't bother flushing with cleaners) if you want, lock in the pf pull a 1/2 shot. Letting the pump run for 27 seconds vs 12 will do nothing in a flushing situation. I gave up on the flush, I used a tooth brush and just the PI from a shot and 'scrub' off the grounds while it running. Flushing grounds back into your expansion valve could actually make you need to clean it more. Just unbolt the screens and brass diffuser and soak them, then wipe them out and pop it back together your done. Endo suggested this I think and so far I've followed it as flushing grounds back through the whole system isn't that good of an idea, this isn't really like a e61 type group when it comes to this type of upkeep.

[MDL]

I backflush with detergent every 2 - 4 weeks (as suggested). When you do this you will see coffee residue, particularly on the first flush.

I prefer a stainless blind basket to the rubber disc, but either way:

Remove the screens, clean the dispersion disc and install the clean set of screens
Put about 1/3 spoon cafiza (or other espresso machine detergnet) into the basket
Install the portafilter and turn on the pump
When the overpressure warning flashes turn off the pump and you will get a gush out the overpressure valve
I let the detergent "soak" in the system for a few minutes
I then release the portafilter, relock and repeat the procedure 3 - 5 times
After doing this with a single load of detergent I remove the portafilter, rinse it and then run 3 - 5 backflusshes of clean water
finally let the machine pump water into the drip tray to flush the screens

[az erik]

I backflush with detergent every 2 - 4 weeks (as suggested). When you do this you will see coffee residue, particularly on the first flush.

I prefer a stainless blind basket to the rubber disc, but either way:

Remove the screens, clean the dispersion disc and install the clean set of screens
Put about 1/3 spoon cafiza (or other espresso machine detergnet) into the basket
Install the portafilter and turn on the pump
When the overpressure warning flashes turn off the pump and you will get a gush out the overpressure valve
I let the detergent "soak" in the system for a few minutes
I then release the portafilter, relock and repeat the procedure 3 - 5 times
After doing this with a single load of detergent I remove the portafilter, rinse it and then run 3 - 5 backflusshes of clean water
finally let the machine pump water into the drip tray to flush the screens

With clean screens this makes sense, to clean the screens and diffuser it doesnt, at least to me.

[Endo]

I totally agree. Flush with clean screens only, otherwise you are doing more harm than good.

When I flush with clean screens, I see no residue at all, even after 3 weeks with no back flush. Makes me wonder if it does anything at all, though I suppose it won't hurt.....unless you run you pump for too long.

[slo]

Although it cannot be ascertained scientifically, there has been a few instances where the 3 way valve started leaking and a (numerous) good soaking back flush has cleared the problem. So it seem to demonstrate that there is a benefit.
For sure, back flushing with clean disk and diffuser is the most certain way that the flush path will be cleaned with detergent only and not exposed to the stray grounds but, to me, it complicate the process more than it needs to be.
I detergent back flush every week or 2 (sometime I just forget and skip a week ) with screen and all but I only do the tear down and soaking every month or 2 (I am very forgetful ).
YMMV.

[Endo]

I detergent back flush every week or 2 (sometime I just forget and skip a week ) with screen and all but I only do the tear down and soaking every month or 2 (I am very forgetful ).
YMMV.

I do the opposite. I swap screens and diffuser very week to remove trapped and baked on grounds ( I wouldn't call turning a screw a "tear down").

I backflush with detergent every 2 or 3 months, but have yet to see anything (proof that the screen swapping works?). I have NEVER had a 3 way valve leak.

Back flushing is a carry over from commercial machines like the laMarzocco. You don't need it nearly as often on the Vivaldi. Trust me!

[richardcoffee]

I do it Endo's way. Just yesterday I changed the screens, cleaned the diffuser and backflushed with detergent for the 1st time in a month. I got completely clean soapy discharge the 1st time with the first flush.

[expy98]

back in the E61 days, I'd have lots of problem w/ the lever sticking, really gritty, because the cafiza granules don't dissolve readily. To avoid that,
I'd dissolve the cafiza in the blind basket first before backflushing. Also, when I had other issues w/ that machine and consulted 1st Line, I was
advised to use a much smaller amount, about 1/4 of the Pallo brush's spoon end, and backflush in 3 sets with detergent, each set 3 reps.
I go crazy after cafiza and backflush/flush a ton w/ water before pulling 2 sink shots with the single basket (the only use I have for the single basket).

Just happened to backflush last weekend (cleaned screens and diffuser first) first time in couple of months, soapy discharge was fairly clean but slightly
discolored so there's something coming out (cleaned the drip tray first). It always seems to whoosh much stronger after a chemical backflushing
so that's some indication that it's doing something w/ the 3 way valve.

[slo]

... I wouldn't call turning a screw a "tear down".

I didn't mean it in a major chore kind of way. It is no big deal to take the screw off.
I should take the screen off and soak it every week but there is not much to be cleaned really that the weekly backflush does not take away.
To each is own I guess.

[dgasmd]

Thanks to everyone for the opinions and discussion. I had already done the cleaning of diffuser and screen a couple of times. It was so filthy each time I was amazed water was getting through! Obviously I'm not doing it often enough. Will do this weekly now if not every 2 weeks. After everything was cleaned, I did a flush with water and nothing but clean water came out the other end, so I think I will stick to the cleaning of screens and diffuser only for now.

[expy98]

dgasmd, if the screens are that filthy, I'm wondering if you're doing any flushing/brushing/wiping after each shot or at least end of the session. I flush/brush/wipe after every shot
so whether I clean the screens in a few days or a few weeks, the amount of accumulation is not too dissimilar, there's only so much that can accumulate w/ some flushing
after each shot.

[dgasmd]

I do flush after every shot, but no brushing. I do wipe down the screen with a paper towel while it is wet after the flushing

[Endo]

After I knock the puck out, I rinse the PF using my the short single shot button I have set to about 60ml. This cleans the screens and basket well. I will sometimes wipe the screens after the rinse with my microfibre cloth, but not always. By doing this, I don't find much coffee on the screens when I remove them every week. Though I do find I get a good film of coffee grounds on the side of the brass diffuser puck.

[az erik]

Oh and I've 'finished' my morning with a Colgate toothbrush scrub while running a 6 second shot with pi only, clean screens :) I actually don't like my Pallo brush for anything other than cleaning the steam holes, just me I guess.

[expy98]

and I only use my Pallo brush for the spoon end to measure out cafiza :-)

[Endo]

and I only use my Pallo brush for the spoon end to measure out cafiza :-)

Ha...me too! And I use the brush that LaSpaziale provided for scraping the edges of my BBQ.

Nothing less gentle than a microfibre cloth ever touches my machine.

[expy98]

I like my BBQ too much to use that useless brush. I wonder what they were thinking w/ that brush, probably
a running joke for the factory workers on the US consumers.

[peter]

It's good to read what others are doing.

And it's good to see the folks here have maintained an atmosphere where someone can ask a basic question about his machine. There are some forums who would ridicule or demean someone for asking about flushing. But not here, and that's a credit to all the great people who've make this site work so well.

[zedex]

I use that nasty brush to clean above the screens when they are removed. Otherwise i use a toothbrush to clean the screens everyday after the shot. After about a month or so i remove the screens and am amazed at all the black gunk on the brass diffuser.

[Endo]

I use that nasty brush to clean above the screens when they are removed.

Really? I never get any build-up behind the screens. When I remove both screens and diffuser, I just wipe the inside of the grouphead with my microfibre cloth and it sparkles. I'd never risk using that brush and scratch it all up.

As I said, if you swap the screens regularly, you should have no problems.

[zedex]

hmmm. Maybe i should flip the screens more often. Realistically ,i probably flip them every 2 months. So thats about 120 shots.

[dgasmd]

Well, I have certainly gotten more regular in the removing the screen and diffuser. I do it weekly now. Scrub the heck out of them and use soap with tons of rinding to make sure it is all free of soap at the end. Once assembled, I do use the black disc now and do a single back flush more amusement than anything else. By one week's end, it is dirty, but nowhere near as filthy as it was the first few times I did it. I still flush and wipe after every shot and rinse the PF under running water using my finger to remove any debri. I also take the opportunity to scrub the PF well inside out. Working pretty well so far. Thanks again for the insight and help.