new sII,Leaky???

[zedex]

Hi. I bought a new s2 a month ago from CCS and i see some water that accumulates under the large boiler on the left of the machine behind the drip tray. It seems to appear when i start up the machine. I hear some hissing and see steam and finally about a tablespoon collects in and around under the boiler. It might be some valve opening ,releasing steam and the condensation rolls down the boiler or tube? I dont know. It might be normal?
Thanks for any feedback.

[slo]

When you turn on the machine a valve on top of the boiler, called a vacuum breaker, lets the air out until the boiler only has saturated steam above. This is the hissing and sputtering that you hear. Usually there should not be any significant quantity of water being expelled. I certainly never read of a table spoon of water coming out.
Open the cup tray and look at the valve on top of the boiler, it should have a piece of plastic folded over it to prevent the sputtering to get everywhere. See if the water comes from there and report back.

[zedex]

Thanks Slo. I will check it out today. If i fold up a half sheet of paper towel and stick it under the boiler to wick up the water, when i pull it out its completely soaked, so it may be more than a tablespoon.:(

[chas]

It sounds like that vacuum breaker is either not sealing completely or else it is taking too long to seal. What works much of the time is to pop the top cover off while the machine is up to temperature and quickly push down the pin (shown below by the yellow arrow) and let go using a long handled screwdriver or something similar that will keep your hand away from the steam blast that will come out when you push the pin down. If you push it down and let it reseat itself 1-2 times often the problem will resolve itself.

Since this is a new unit, if that doesn't work, I'd call CCS and get them to drop ship you a new valve. It's trivial to replace.

Vacuum Breaker Valve

VBVVII.jpg (130.71 KiB) Viewed 999 times

[zedex]

Thanks. Heres the culprit. http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b376/zedex/s2-1.jpg I can see the water bubbling out from under that plastic piece in front of the boiler.Im not super happy about that.

[chas]

It looks like you have a leak in the volumetric sensor. The strange thing is that, after never seeing this in seven years since this machine was introduced, this is the 2nd time it's been seen in as many weeks. I was thinking the last time might have been due to water freezing inside and cracking the body of the sensor while in transit, but I am doubtful now that it has happened again so soon.

I think you'd better call CCS, tell them what you are seeing, and have them send you a new sensor. It's not hard to replace.

[zedex]

Thanks Chas. This machine was a "buyers remorse" machine and was a display model at CC. So water freeze issue as you describe would make perfect sense since i doubt CC could get all water out of machine . I will email CCS with this link.
Regards
Colin

Thankfully the machine looks like its pretty easy to work on .

[chas]

At least with this little leak you can probably slide a short catch pan under the machine and keep right on going until the replacement part arrives.

[zedex]

Yea. It doesnt leak much water,probably about an ounce or so and collects under the boiler so,no biggie.Will just have a cloth under it until CCS sends out a new part.

[chas]

Check out this thread from earlier this month. Sound familiar?

http://s1cafe.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=1651&p=19297&hilit=flow+meter#p19297

[zedex]

Chas. Since your sitting right here. Question. When i pull a shot,using the 2 cup button i have it programed for about 40 seconds.Works great. But when i do a flush with no coffee in the PF,just to heat up the PF, the shot lasts about ...i dunno, 6 seconds? I take it the volumetric sensor senses there is no coffee in the PF so it limits the shot? Curious about this.
Thanks
Colin

[zedex]

Check out this thread from earlier this month. Sound familiar?

http://s1cafe.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=1651&p=19297&hilit=flow+meter#p19297

lol. Looks vaguely familiar.

[chas]

Chas. Since your sitting right here. Question. When i pull a shot,using the 2 cup button i have it programed for about 40 seconds.Works great. But when i do a flush with no coffee in the PF,just to heat up the PF, the shot lasts about ...i dunno, 6 seconds? I take it the volumetric sensor senses there is no coffee in the PF so it limits the shot? Curious about this.
Thanks
Colin

With no coffee in the PF the machine is pushing the same volume of water in 6 secs that it does in 40 sec with coffee in the PF.

[zedex]

ahhhhh. Thank you.

[peter]

ahhhhh. Thank you.

With no coffee in the PF the machine is pushing the same volume of water in 6 secs that it does in 40 sec with coffee in the PF.

It's been a while since I've read the manual, but IIRC, it says to set the volume for the two buttons w/ coffee in the PF. And that must be the reason why.

[zedex]

I took the sensor apart and yes, the base is cracked. I glued it up but the problem is the plastic base is distorted from probably the force of frozen water,and the seal is also distorted pretty bad as it was forced out of its original position. Its back together but the seal is damaged so it still leaks. I have some o ring seals at work that might suffice until the replacement base and seal arrives.

[Endo]

I was thinking the last time might have been due to water freezing inside and cracking the body of the sensor while in transit, but I am doubtful now that it has happened again so soon.

After disassembling the unit and hearing of the types of cracks and leaks in the unit described here (not around the bolt holes), I am almost certain Chas' freezing hypothesis is correct. It probably seems more common around Christmas time due to the higher volume of machines shipped and onset of the season with extreme cold weather.

Here is the water left in the flowmeter after disassembly. This expands when frozen, pushing out the top so that the top cracks between bolt (where it is most flexible).

Residual Water in Flowmeter

2011-08-14 032 (640x512).jpg (197.97 KiB) Viewed 937 times

Let it be a warning to all those planning to ship. REMOVE THE 3 TOP SCREWS AND REMOVE THE FLOWMETER TOP FIRST

[chas]

CCS has told me their technique for shipment preparation. In addition to doing the best possible job of thoroughly draining the boilers, they also remove all the solenoid valves and use compressed air to blow all the water out of those areas and out the group head, steam water, and hot water valves. However, none of that procedure impacts the water trapped inside the flow meter body as Endo has shown. This is definitely the weak point in the process. In addition, this water is trapped inside one of the few components made of plastic!

[zedex]

Plus the fact that its the lowest elevation on the machine. A small bleed screw would work in the brass body.

[zedex]

Jason at CCS is sending me a new flow meter plus are also sending me the brass base, in case the brass was compromised by freezing pressure. Such great service at CC.

[zedex]

ok. So. Its fixed. A tiny amount of permatex around the seating base and viola. No more leak. I will switch it out once the new parts arrive.
Good talking to you guys.
Regards
Colin

[CaliforniaJed]

Just saw this. Exact same issue that I had. The oter thread was mine. A new top was all I needed. The brass base seems to have been fine. Glad your problem is identified and on its way to resolution.

[Endo]

A new top was all I needed. The brass base seems to have been fine.

I can't see the brass ever needing to be replaced. The top cover would bow outward and crack between bolts (max strain area) way before the brass would ever yielded. I assume they provide the brass base simply because you can't buy the top cover separately.

Some type of overpressure relief feature (i.e. a teflon screw) would be a nice feature LaSpaziale should consider adding. Or as a minimum, sell the top cover as a $20 replacement part.

[CaliforniaJed]

I assume they provided the brass base simply because you can't buy the top cover separately.

Actually all they sent me was the top cover and a new sensor. I never asked for the base because like you I couldn't imagine that it was damaged. The leak was clearly in the top cover.

[Endo]

I doubt the sensor will need replacing. It simply press fits into a hole on top of the cover. It would be an unnecessary bother to replace.

[CaliforniaJed]

I doubt the sensor will need replacing. It simply press fits into a hole on top of the cover. It would be an unnecessary bother to replace.

I agree.

[zedex]

My parts showed up today. Thats crazy fast service. So all is good in Vivaldi land.

[Endo]

Did they send it from Cafe-Tech in Edmonton or did it come direct from CCS?

[zedex]

Hi. It came direct from CCS. They sent everything,the brass base,the plastic top,the innards and the sensor. From the package it is all assembled as 1 piece.